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Message
re: Timeline: Stunning details in Penn State fraternity pledge death (Update: charges dropped)
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:04 am to Darth Aranda
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:04 am to Darth Aranda
quote:
Posted by Darth Aranda on 5/10/17 at 9:51 pm to Ed Osteen It's amazing seeing all these frat douches coming in here preaching "oh he's just a pledge bro, it's not like they knew him well". frick all of you
Yep. And others too. The number of people in this thread defending or excusing the bystanders and even the person who videoed him is amazing. Sadly but predictably, many of these are the same ones who are quick to jump on Bystanders in different incidents.
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Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:05 am to East Coast Band
Just to play Devils advocate.... Maybe if our society wasn't so extremely uptight about college aged kids, who live on their own and can die in a war for their country, getting drunk and having fun... Maybe just maybe they wouldn't have hesitated to get him help
Just saying, sometimes the strict rules society enforces cause more harm than good. College kids are going to drink and party no matter what
Just saying, sometimes the strict rules society enforces cause more harm than good. College kids are going to drink and party no matter what
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:11 am to East Coast Band
I just want to add that the senior residential adviser for this frat is also the head trainer for the Penn St football team. He was at the house that night when this all happened.
He was not charged.
Penn St gonna Penn St.
He was not charged.
Penn St gonna Penn St.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:19 am to GetCocky11
How do you decide who will be charged and who will not?
Strictly thinking of actual events, rather than who has connections, there must be varying degrees of guilt.
The guys that pounced on him, the guy who refused another's request for medical treatment should bear the most responsibility, IMO. However, I am sure there were a number of kids, including this trainer, that were there, but were probably not aware of the events. Typically frat houses are large with many floors and rooms, so several brothers may not have ever seen this pledge at all that weekend.
Strictly thinking of actual events, rather than who has connections, there must be varying degrees of guilt.
The guys that pounced on him, the guy who refused another's request for medical treatment should bear the most responsibility, IMO. However, I am sure there were a number of kids, including this trainer, that were there, but were probably not aware of the events. Typically frat houses are large with many floors and rooms, so several brothers may not have ever seen this pledge at all that weekend.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:22 am to East Coast Band
quote:
How do you decide who will be charged and who will not?
Strictly thinking of actual events, rather than who has connections, there must be varying degrees of guilt.
The guys that pounced on him, the guy who refused another's request for medical treatment should bear the most responsibility, IMO. However, I am sure there were a number of kids, including this trainer, that were there, but were probably not aware of the events. Typically frat houses are large with many floors and rooms, so several brothers may not have ever seen this pledge at all that weekend.
I wasn't in a frat, but shouldn't the "senior residential adviser" be aware of events happening in the house at all times?
Seems like a "hey I'm going to look the other way why you do this hazing, so don't bother me" moment.
That seems like negligence.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:24 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
I'm a fan of fraternities, wasn't in one but I have two brothers that were
Yea but think how many BROTHERS you would have had if you did join
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:34 am to East Coast Band
This is sad. As someone who was in a fraternity and lived in a fraternity house at UT for a summer, I've definitely seen some crazy shite that could easily have gotten out of hand.
Every fraternity has a small group of guys (usually includes the president) who keep things in order and function as the voice of reason so that 1) people don't get hurt and 2) no one goes to jail.
This fraternity didn't have that.
Every fraternity has a small group of guys (usually includes the president) who keep things in order and function as the voice of reason so that 1) people don't get hurt and 2) no one goes to jail.
This fraternity didn't have that.
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 8:02 am
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:41 am to Pecker
quote:
Every fraternity has a small group of guys (usually includes the president) who keep things in order and function as the voice of reason so that 1) people don't get hurt and 2) no one goes to jail.
You're a fricking adult, and you need a chapter president's blessing to call an ambulance? I guess you can buy friends, but you can't buy sense
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:41 am to GetCocky11
quote:
I wasn't in a frat, but shouldn't the "senior residential adviser" be aware of events happening in the house at all times?
They know of major events (large parties, mixers, initiations, philanthropy events) but too much of what happens at a fraternity house is spontaneous, so you just have to assume that at any point in a week you'll have 10-50 people there drinking and hanging out.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:42 am to Pecker
quote:
Every fraternity has a small group of guys (usually includes the president) who keep things in order and function as the voice of reason so that 1) people don't get hurt and 2) no one goes to jail.
That's how it was with my fraternity. Our Rush was completely dry, and at organized parties we always had a group of brothers sober. And it was strictly enforced. The year I was VP I was sober at every single party we threw. No way in hell was I not going to be with drunk idiots all over the place and it being my arse if something happened.
Oh, and go frick yourself with your self-righteous bullshite Strong Safety.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:42 am to Muriel
Lot of judgie judgersons on here. Funny thing is I would guess 90% of the people condemning have been around people who were passed out drunk and fell down and didn't call 911.
It's a tragic story and everyone involved are morons, like most 18-21 year olds, but some of you clowns are acting like they set out to kill the kid or like this isn't something that goes on at ever college campus across the country every weekend.
Hopefully lessons will be learned from this, but sadly I doubt it.
It's a tragic story and everyone involved are morons, like most 18-21 year olds, but some of you clowns are acting like they set out to kill the kid or like this isn't something that goes on at ever college campus across the country every weekend.
Hopefully lessons will be learned from this, but sadly I doubt it.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:43 am to RandySavage
quote:
Lot of judgie judgersons on here. Funny thing is I would guess 90% of the people condemning have been around people who were passed out drunk and fell down and didn't call 911.
Did you actually read the sequence of events? I've never done anything even remotely approaching as fricked up and reckless as these fricking murderers.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:45 am to Pecker
The people who should be charged are the president and Vice President, the RA and any older adult are generally not around on purpose during these type of things.
But it's the president and vp's job to insure safety when this kind of BS goes on. They are the ones that keep everything under a certain level. The pounding of drinks was completely stupid and that in itself should get them in deep shite. It's one thing to have hunch punch type of parties or drinking, it's another to have an organized way to drink a specific number of drinks that would get anyone completely wasted. That's just organized negligence.
Everyone acts like this kind of thing only happens at frat parties and that's complete BS. At any other party, most of the people there would not of known him and his group of friends could of been just as easily been too wasted to help.
The main difference here is that a frat is supposed to have someone sober that is there to help anyone that over drinks or gets hurt. That is where they failed miserably.
But it's the president and vp's job to insure safety when this kind of BS goes on. They are the ones that keep everything under a certain level. The pounding of drinks was completely stupid and that in itself should get them in deep shite. It's one thing to have hunch punch type of parties or drinking, it's another to have an organized way to drink a specific number of drinks that would get anyone completely wasted. That's just organized negligence.
Everyone acts like this kind of thing only happens at frat parties and that's complete BS. At any other party, most of the people there would not of known him and his group of friends could of been just as easily been too wasted to help.
The main difference here is that a frat is supposed to have someone sober that is there to help anyone that over drinks or gets hurt. That is where they failed miserably.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:47 am to baldona
They had numerous opportunities to save a clearly injured person in need of medical assistance and not only failed to do so but exacerbated the problem. This goes so, so far beyond standard frat tomfoolery. I was a frat douche in my day and can't fathom me or any of my friends being so reckless in disregard for someone else's health.
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 7:48 am
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:50 am to lsu2006
quote:
Did you actually read the sequence of events? I've never done anything even remotely approaching as fricked up and reckless as these fricking murderers.
Come on, I've been to many a non frat parties where we watched football or basketball games and did shots for 3s or shots for touchdowns.
Summer year of hs before I got to college, I filmed a good friend funnel a 32 oz Old English which was like 6-8% abv. That was enough right there to probably put his bac at .15 or so.
I did plenty of stupid stuff, and witness 10x more.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:51 am to baldona
quote:
Come on, I've been to many a non frat parties where we watched football or basketball games and did shots for 3s or shots for touchdowns.
Summer year of hs before I got to college, I filmed a good friend funnel a 32 oz Old English which was like 6-8% abv. That was enough right there to probably put his bac at .15 or so.
You're not actually trying to equate these things to what happened in this story, are you?
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:54 am to lsu2006
quote:
They had numerous opportunities to save a clearly injured person in need of medical assistance and not only failed to do so but exacerbated the problem. This goes so, so far beyond standard frat tomfoolery. I was a frat douche in my day and can't fathom me or any of my friends being so reckless in disregard for someone else's health.
I completely agree, but if this guys bac was .20 than chances are many of the other guys was that way too and they were all retardedly ignorant. The negligence imo is from the seniors and like one or two grad students there that should of been through this 4-5+ times and known there should of been someone sober looking out for them. It's not the fact the drinking was allowed that's troublesome to me which that much is stupid, but the fact they did it without someone in charge of being responsible.
Fwiw I would bet they were supposed to have someone sober and that person or persons got drunk. We'll likely never know.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:56 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
You're a fricking adult, and you need a chapter president's blessing to call an ambulance? I guess you can buy friends, but you can't buy sense
Yeah, technically they're adults. No question. But I look back on it (8 years ago for me) and see us as being kids who drank, partied, made friends and had a lot of freedom. 18-20 year old fraternity and sorority members hang out at fraternity houses. When you're 21 you're old enough to get into bars so the fraternity house isn't your go-to place anymore (other than for large parties). We can argue semantics (kids vs adults) but the point I was making was that in the middle of drunken revelry, you need people who are responsible. There were times I had to play that role and other times when I was glad not to worry about anything and just enjoy myself. There's so much shenanigans that takes place in a given week that it's not always easy to determine when someone legitimately needs medical attention or if they just need to sleep it off.
I think you understand what I'm saying, you just don't like fraternities - which is fine.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:58 am to lsu2006
quote:
You're not actually trying to equate these things to what happened in this story, are you?
The guy that passed did 5-6 full drinks in a row very quickly. I'm saying that's not that out of place outside of fraternities. I'm giving examples of literally seeing that myself, when someone else said it was absurd.
A large frat could have over 100 guys at a party easily, its very possible that every guy that helped him did so for the first time and no one knew isn't of the other events happened. I'm not saying that's right as it's ridiculous. All I'm saying is that drinking that was described is not that far out of the norm.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 8:00 am to baldona
quote:
guy that passed did 5-6 full drinks in a row very quickly.
That he was forced to do
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