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re: This math problem is clearly only for geniuses...

Posted on 2/24/16 at 2:28 pm to
Posted by Fonzarelli
Dallas
Member since Jan 2015
3999 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 2:28 pm to
quote:

after 3+3-3x0+3 pages


How many pages??
Posted by dawgfan24348
Member since Oct 2011
50562 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 2:38 pm to
Answer 9 as already stated, remember you multiply first

-3*0=0

Now you have 3+3+3 which is 9
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
38140 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 2:38 pm to
KG, I also have a BS in Mechanical Engineering. By the time you get to college, the assumption is that you have these basics down, but I am not sure about the left to right idea being taught directly anymore or, now that you mention it, even back in my day (graduated HS in 1980) but I always understood that to be the case, possibly due to the fact that we are taught to read left to right and the brain would logically put that together. I do know that in the absence of parenthesis, the operation is performed on the next object in line clearly pointed out by the fact the 4/2=2 and not .5

Typically, you will never see an equation written in the way this problem was presented unless it is an exercise like this. Parenthesize for clarity has always been my rule.

PS. you can tell we're nerds by how much time we've spend on this subject.
Posted by KG6
Member since Aug 2009
10920 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 2:44 pm to
That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to argue that you are all wrong. I get that it is a "next best thing" convention in the absence of a clearly written problem. I just don't think we should lean on that and should teach proper equation writing. And as you said, I can get how the convention is considered common knowledge. I see that many people were taught it and that it's all over the web. Just never personally had a teacher tell me to answer left to right that I can remember. And the only reason I mention the degree I have is that I, just as you and others, have answered quite a few problems in my life and never once did I miss something on a test and have a teacher say, "you should have done left to right".
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
38140 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

for example, if 1/2 is meant to represent the division operation of 1 divided by 2 - and not a fractional value within the equation


Please explain to me what the difference between 1÷2 and 1/2. I was taught in the third grade that they were equivalent. The result certainly is.

quote:

haphazard use of / as a division operator


It is, in my experience, a far more common practice to use / than ÷.
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
38140 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 2:56 pm to
I figured we were headed in the same direction. I only mentioned the degree because I'm always happy to make the acquaintance of another ME, even though I never really did much of what would be considered mechanical engineering. I've been almost all control systems from day one. A lot of PLC programming and some scripting on HMIs.

Good luck to you.
Posted by Drew Orleans
Member since Mar 2010
21577 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 2:58 pm to
Wrong
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
92539 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 4:27 pm to
quote:

Please explain to me what the difference between 1÷2 and 1/2.


There is no difference in isolation. Both of those are "0.5".

It is only a distinction by implication - for me, the former indicates an equation, the latter represents the fraction created by that same equation. Probably doesn't make a lick of difference 99% of the time, but when you start swapping in datasets, it is a big difference, to me anyway, from a precision standpoint of whether we're talking about an equation or a fraction.

If you never use fractions, and only use decimals for calculation, there isn't a distinction at all.
Posted by Rebel
Graceland
Member since Jan 2005
138121 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 4:42 pm to
I'm getting 9.

Didn't read. Just wanted to see if I was trashy or not.
Posted by Old Money
LSU
Member since Sep 2012
39600 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 4:59 pm to
9 using PEMDAS, I suck at math so I think this is right.
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
46135 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 5:02 pm to
What is the answer in common core math?
Posted by Nuts4LSU
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
25468 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 5:21 pm to
quote:

3+3-3x0+3=?!?!?!


I seem to recall that when there is multiplication or division in a string of operations along with addition or subtraction, the multiplication and/or division are applied first. So...

3 x 0 = 0

3 + 3 - 0 + 3 = 9?
Posted by EZE Tiger Fan
Member since Jul 2004
54466 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 5:25 pm to
3+3-3x0+3= 3

3+3-(3x0)+3 = 9
Posted by Scrowe
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2010
2936 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 6:17 pm to
quote:

3+3-3x0+3= 3


Hope people who post this are only doing so to stir the pot cause it is depressing seeing this answer posted so many times.
Posted by BamaChemE
Midland, TX
Member since Feb 2012
7359 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 6:26 pm to
quote:

Better than me, I got 27^(2/3)


Whoever went out of their way and downvoted this must not know how to use exponents
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
38140 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 6:28 pm to
I get what you're saying, I suppose. That it may be clearer to evaluate the equation for many. It really comes down to how much we are taught (or not taught) some very basic principles of mathematics that really only are important in these academic type exercises.

Typically people use parenthesis to clarify equations and usually actually segregate equations by operator type. So you rarely see 2 x 4 / 5 x 3 but rather 2 x 3 x 4 / 5 because our brain typically resolves it that way for us.

Posted by chunk
UNDER YOUR BED
Member since Jan 2007
5126 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 7:17 pm to
Please excuse my dear aunt Sally
Posted by Slippin Jimmy
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2016
60 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 7:44 pm to
I was taught that PEMDAS applies in reducing or expanding variable equations but never the left to right rule which doesn't matter so much as long as PEMDAS is applied correctly. The hang up here is that AS HAS to be treated separately from PEMD because both sides of the operator,+ or -, can not be treated independently of one another. whereas you can treat other operations as if each side is independent of the other. This is why (2x-2)^2 has to be FOILed:

(2x-2)^2 = (2x-2) (2x-2)
= 4x^2-8+4.
First
Outer
Inner
Last

Instead, if resolving the parentheses before squaring this would be wrong:

(2x-2)^2 = 4x^2+4.

In this case the LHS is already in its simplest form.

If you assume x=1 then both sides of the first equation resolve to zero; whereas 0 does not equal 8 using the 2nd method which treats both sides of the subtraction operator as independent of each other. This is why AS are at the end of PEMDAS.
Posted by MIZ_COU
I'm right here
Member since Oct 2013
13771 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 8:16 pm to
wait wat 2x-2 does not equal 4x. You can't resolve the parenthesis first as it's already resolved

also (2x-2)(2x-2) = 4x^2 -8x +4
This post was edited on 2/24/16 at 8:25 pm
Posted by Slippin Jimmy
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2016
60 posts
Posted on 2/24/16 at 8:30 pm to
I didn't say it does, friend.

Reread my post. In other words just squaring each term on the LHS in the second method, which is treating each side of the minus operator independently. That would be the wrong way which is why the FOIL method was developed.
This post was edited on 2/24/16 at 8:35 pm
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