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re: The Top 10 Greatest Generals of All-Time - According to Mathematics
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:42 pm to doubleb
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:42 pm to doubleb
quote:
Could he have done all what hd accomplished with half the men, and no navy? No. Did he recognize what he had to do and did he take full advantage of his assets and the poor leadership on the other side? Yes, he did.
Could any general on the continent do it without the men and the navy? No. Could any other general recognize what he had to do to take full advantage of his assets and the poor leadership on the other side? No, they could not. Having the fleet run the guns of Vicksburg was a risky endeavor. So risky that just about every single one of Grant's generals, including Sherman, advised against it. Despite this, he rolled the dice and came out looking like a rose. Very few generals on the planet at that time, much less the continent, would have taken that risk.
1
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:44 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
7. Ulysses S. Grant Grant's performance commanding Union troops in 16 battles earned him the seventh spot on the list – and the U.S. presidency. Although his performance on the battlefield is clearly much better than those of his contemporaries, it should be noted that his Civil War arch-rival, Robert E. Lee, is so far below him on the list that he actually has a negative score.
What kind of HuffPost Yankee bullshite is this?
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:45 pm to fr33manator
quote:
it should be noted that his Civil War arch-rival, Robert E. Lee, is so far below him on the list that he actually has a negative score.
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:47 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i'm curious what stats were used to downgrade the Mongolian generals
The list and it’s makers being absolute morons.
Grant shouldn’t make a top 25 list of great generals. This is some propaganda bullshite, not an objective historical piece
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:49 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Could any general on the continent do it without the men and the navy? No. Could any other general recognize what he had to do to take full advantage of his assets and the poor leadership on the other side? No, they could not. Having the fleet run the guns of Vicksburg was a risky endeavor. So risky that just about every single one of Grant's generals, including Sherman, advised against it. Despite this, he rolled the dice and came out looking like a rose. Very few generals on the planet at that time, much less the continent, would have taken that risk.
Well they are grading RE Lee who had half the men, no navy and way less resources.
And I am acknowledging that Grant was great with the assets at hand, but I wonder what he would have done with less.
Napoleon, Caesar, and other greats won with less. Grant was never tested that way.
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:49 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Grant shouldn’t make a top 25 list of great generals. This is some propaganda bullshite, not an objective historical piece
I'm sure you believe Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson are the greatest generals history has ever seen.
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:49 pm to jimbeam
The fact that Subutai, who personally (unlike Genghis) conquered from China to Hungary, isn’t on this list makes it invalid as far as I’m concerned. No one before or since has conquered that level of territory. Personally I’d put him as forth after Alexander, Caesar, and Napoleon.
This post was edited on 8/7/20 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:56 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:
Not just on the list...he should be #1 imho.
Subutai did a lot Genghis’ dirty work though. Genghis absolutely should be on the top 10 as well, but Subutai made Stonewall Jackson look like a raging pussy. His nickname was “The Demon Dog of War” if you want to know what type of a guy he was.
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:59 pm to fr33manator
quote:
What kind of HuffPost Yankee bullshite is this?
Posted on 8/7/20 at 4:00 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
how the lost cause lives on in 2020 is beyond me and depressing
It's still taught in southern schools.
Posted on 8/7/20 at 4:36 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Don’t be mad because Grant whipped your boy’s booty.
I'm not. Not really a huge fan of Grant or Lee. I think Lee's dedication to state is notable and a decisive comment on the time (and the fact he graduated West Point with zero demerits is one of his most underrated feats), but a field commander, he was not one of the best (much to contrary of what our modern mythology tells us). From a commander point of view (if we are talking that war), I'm more of a Longstreet type of guy but that's just me.
But the truth is the truth. Grant was a drunk.
Ulysses S. Grant’s Lifelong Struggle With Alcohol
And FWIW, one of my very best friends is a functional alcoholic. I still love the guy like a brother.
This post was edited on 8/7/20 at 4:43 pm
Posted on 8/7/20 at 4:58 pm to Lonnie Utah
My original hypothesis still stands.
Subjective analysis like this cannot be defined by quantitative methods because there are too many outside variables that you cannot quantify.
Oh, and MJ not LeBron is the GOAT.
Subjective analysis like this cannot be defined by quantitative methods because there are too many outside variables that you cannot quantify.
Oh, and MJ not LeBron is the GOAT.
Posted on 8/7/20 at 5:08 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
I'm sure you believe Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson are the greatest generals history has ever seen
Jackson might make the end. Truth be told I don’t particularly enjoy the American civil war.
My top 25 would primarily be populated with pre 1800 commanders with a few napoleonic and Great War/WW2 thrown in.
Grant doesn’t belong in ANY all time top 10. He just wasn’t a superior general
Posted on 8/7/20 at 5:08 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
But the truth is the truth. Grant was a drunk
Imagine his score if he was sober.
Probably be above Napoleon
Posted on 8/7/20 at 5:10 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Grant doesn’t belong in ANY all time top 10. He just wasn’t a superior general
He was the first to use modern warfare strategy and tactics.
The first to break away from Napoleonic warfare tactics.
I'd say he was a great general just for that.
Posted on 8/7/20 at 5:15 pm to magildachunks
quote:
He was the first to use modern warfare strategy and tactics.
The first to break away from Napoleonic warfare tactics.
Wrong and wrong. You don’t know much about history do you?
And I never said he wasn’t an interesting general. I’m not gonna deny the man his place in history. But to put him over Alexander? Over The great Khan? Hell Shaka Zulu might rank above him.
Being one of the first to get to use new weaponry does not make one great, especially not top 10 great.
He wasn’t a master tactician. He wasn’t some innovative genius. He had the budget and the manpower to overwhelm the south. In a roughly equal matchup he doesn’t hold a candle
Posted on 8/7/20 at 5:17 pm to fr33manator
quote:
He had the budget and the manpower to overwhelm the south. In a roughly equal matchup he doesn’t hold a candle
quote:
how the lost cause lives on in 2020 is beyond me and depressing
Posted on 8/7/20 at 5:18 pm to RollTide1987
No Patton, no care
Posted on 8/7/20 at 5:21 pm to WestCoastAg
how is that a lost cause argument? It’s a logistics argument. It’s a war game argument. I mean are you incapable of objectivity on historical subjects?
Do you think the German army was terrible (as in militarily) too?
Posted on 8/7/20 at 5:23 pm to fr33manator
quote:making light of general grants accomplishments and boiling them down to "all he had was a numerical and financial advantage" and that had he fought on equal footing with the south, he would have gotten crushed, is like one of the main tenants of lost cause
how is that a lost cause argument
This post was edited on 8/7/20 at 5:24 pm
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