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Message
re: The sinking of El Faro
Posted on 4/4/18 at 12:02 pm to Tigeralum2008
Posted on 4/4/18 at 12:02 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
When Randolph got off the phone with him, she said to Davis, “He said to run it.” She meant the course as planned. She said, “Hold on to your arse!,” and laughed.
But do they realize it? She laughs about it. And it's the course they had already planned.
Mental inertia.
0
Posted on 4/4/18 at 12:14 pm to Jim Rockford
Very interesting. Thanks for posting. Always seems to be the culmination of several smaller things that builds up to tragedy. This is a good reminder.
Press Release from NTSB
From the Press Release
Press Release from NTSB
From the Press Release
quote:
We may never understand why the captain failed to heed his crew’s concerns about sailing into the path of a hurricane, or why he refused to chart a safer course away from such dangerous weather,” said NTSB Chairman Robert L. Sumwalt. “But we know all too well the devastating consequences of those decisions.”
quote:
The NTSB also said that the poor oversight and inadequate safety management system of the ship’s operator, TOTE, contributed to the sinking. “Although El Faro and its crew should never have found themselves in such treacherous weather, that ship was not destined to sink,” said Sumwalt. “If the crew had more information about the status of the hatches, how to best manage the flooding situation, and the ship’s vulnerabilities when in a sustained list, the accident might have been prevented.”
This post was edited on 4/4/18 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 4/4/18 at 12:25 pm to Jim Rockford
TLD[id]R
Posted on 4/4/18 at 12:27 pm to TimeOutdoors
Engineering a disaster
Posted on 4/4/18 at 12:45 pm to Perrydawg
The reminds me of the couple that tried to beat Maria out of Saun Juan. People on this board were holding out hope for days and days that they survived. There isn't any surviving that.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 12:53 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Davidson said, “The swell is out of the northeast. A solid 10 to 12 feet. Spray. High winds. Very poor visibility. That’s the best I can give you right now.” He did not know the wind speeds because the ship’s anemometer was in disrepair and had been for weeks; it is now believed that the winds were sustained at 115 m.p.h., with higher gusts. As for the waves, Davidson appears to have underreported them, perhaps as a matter of professional style. El Faro was in fact struggling to endure steep breaking waves 30 to 40 feet high, and was occasionally encountering waves still higher.
Captain reports 10-12 ft swell, but the ship is taking hits from monster waves.
El Faro Size:
Length: 241 m (791 ft)
Beam: 28.6 m (94 ft)
Draft: 12.8 m (42 ft)
Professional style... to heck with that. My call would of been over exaggerating to the max!
Posted on 4/4/18 at 1:02 pm to farmertiger
How the hell does the company headquarters not keep a better track of ships then that? I understand letting the captains make the call, but how the hell are they not given better information?
Why would the headquarters not be on the phone every hour with an update? Sure the captain made some bad calls, but why did the headquarters not questions them when they continued to head into the storm like that?
I also question how many staff were asleep given it was night? I'd think it would have been all hands on deck given the conditions, but the captain seemed waaaay too confident.
I mean it seems like with a 30 person crew they could have noticed the flooding sooner and stopped it. But that maybe the 3rd shift had fewer active crew?
Why would the headquarters not be on the phone every hour with an update? Sure the captain made some bad calls, but why did the headquarters not questions them when they continued to head into the storm like that?
I also question how many staff were asleep given it was night? I'd think it would have been all hands on deck given the conditions, but the captain seemed waaaay too confident.
I mean it seems like with a 30 person crew they could have noticed the flooding sooner and stopped it. But that maybe the 3rd shift had fewer active crew?
This post was edited on 4/4/18 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 4/4/18 at 1:03 pm to farmertiger
quote:
Professional style... to heck with that. My call would of been over exaggerating to the max!
Sounds like he was a little apprehensive after getting fired from his previous command for making a call regarding safety.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 1:05 pm to baldona
quote:
I also question how many staff were asleep given it was night? I'd think it would have been all hands on deck given the conditions, but the captain seemed waaaay too confident.
He was... and he was going off of old information.
And the entire situation could have been avoided if they had just decided to go West and South of the Bahamas and tacked on the additional 6 hours.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 1:13 pm to baldona
quote:
I also question how many staff were asleep given it was night? I'd think it would have been all hands on deck given the conditions, but the captain seemed waaaay too confident.
If there were around 30 people in the crew, I'd guess 20 were off-watch... so either sleeping or hanging out somewhere. They probably stood 3 section watches.
10 people on watch... a ship that size. It wouldn't be difficult to not know there was flooding in an unmanned compartment until it was too late to stop it.
His confidence stemmed from misinformation. He was relying on reports that were sometimes 12 hours old. The guy listening to Weather Underground had more accurate info than the captain... which is completely fricked up. There's no reason that with all the satellite technology we have now that they shouldn't have been receiving up-to-date information.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 1:18 pm to terd ferguson
quote:
There's no reason that with all the satellite technology we have now that they shouldn't have been receiving up-to-date information
I certainly agree but the article stated the company didn't pay for the more up to date weather package. There was a package with hourly reports they didn't get.
So that's why I'm saying, ok no problem but then they should be getting damn hourly reports from headquarters right? Their land based headquarters knew where they were.
I'd agree that like 2/3rds of crew were not working. But given the situation, that's pretty unbelievable to me? Would you not have more crew working in those kind of conditions?
Lastly, it also seems like the captain woke up to almost incorrectable conditions. Like the night crew should have made it more clear they had major issues.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 1:23 pm to Jim Rockford
Absolutely the best read I've ever seen on TD. I felt like I was at the helm.
Thanks Jim Rockford for posting.
Seems like a screw up from the ground up. From trying to keep to the schedule to uncertainty and untimely reports and forecasts to a Captain worried about his next job, and many other factors contributed to this tragedy.
I identified with Second Mate, Danielle Randolh. I think she had her stuff together.
Thanks again JR.
Thanks Jim Rockford for posting.
Seems like a screw up from the ground up. From trying to keep to the schedule to uncertainty and untimely reports and forecasts to a Captain worried about his next job, and many other factors contributed to this tragedy.
I identified with Second Mate, Danielle Randolh. I think she had her stuff together.
Thanks again JR.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 1:47 pm to terd ferguson
quote:
There's no reason that with all the satellite technology we have now that they shouldn't have been receiving up-to-date information.
Old ship. Outdated instruments. The instrument that measured wind speed hadn't worked in months...
Posted on 4/4/18 at 1:59 pm to Jim Rockford
Jimmy, good read, thanks.
The late Danielle Randolph (Mate)
The late Danielle Randolph (Mate)
Posted on 4/4/18 at 2:31 pm to soccerfüt
Tragic.
She seems to be the one with more sense than some of the others:
:"Now alone on the bridge with Davis, Randolph returned to the subject of Davidson. She mimicked him. “It’s nothing, it’s nothing!” She backed off the mockery and said, “If it’s nothing, then why the hell are we going on a different track line? Think he’s just trying to play it down because he realizes we shouldn’t have come this way. Saving face.”
She seems to be the one with more sense than some of the others:
:"Now alone on the bridge with Davis, Randolph returned to the subject of Davidson. She mimicked him. “It’s nothing, it’s nothing!” She backed off the mockery and said, “If it’s nothing, then why the hell are we going on a different track line? Think he’s just trying to play it down because he realizes we shouldn’t have come this way. Saving face.”
Posted on 4/4/18 at 2:37 pm to LSUCouyon
"She said, “So at two in the morning . . .”
Davis said, “What?”
“ . . . it should be right here.” She indicated a position just outside of San Salvador Island. “Let’s see where we will be.” She did some calculations and began to chuckle. “We’re going to be right there with it. Looks like the storm is coming right for us.” She laughed in disbelief. “Ahhh, you gotta be kidding me.”
Davis said, “We’re going to get our arse ripped.”
Randolph was a Mainer. Salt of the earth. She said, “We’re going to go right through the fricking eye.”
She was something!
Davis said, “What?”
“ . . . it should be right here.” She indicated a position just outside of San Salvador Island. “Let’s see where we will be.” She did some calculations and began to chuckle. “We’re going to be right there with it. Looks like the storm is coming right for us.” She laughed in disbelief. “Ahhh, you gotta be kidding me.”
Davis said, “We’re going to get our arse ripped.”
Randolph was a Mainer. Salt of the earth. She said, “We’re going to go right through the fricking eye.”
She was something!
Posted on 4/4/18 at 2:38 pm to LSUCouyon
quote:
I identified with Second Mate, Danielle Randolh.
Sounded like plenty of the crew did as well.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 3:26 pm to LSUBoo
Fantastic article, thanks for sharing.
I can't believe that the company didn't have a more active hand in a ship that was sailing in proximity to a growing storm. Even if it was just a tropical storm at the time it left port, if I were the insurer I would be livid that someone with more regular access to data wasn't involved in the route planning.
That said, the email to company management and reply approving the proposed return course deviation tells me everything I need to know about decision making there.
I can't believe that the company didn't have a more active hand in a ship that was sailing in proximity to a growing storm. Even if it was just a tropical storm at the time it left port, if I were the insurer I would be livid that someone with more regular access to data wasn't involved in the route planning.
That said, the email to company management and reply approving the proposed return course deviation tells me everything I need to know about decision making there.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 3:44 pm to SM6
quote:
Fantastic article, thanks for sharing.
I can't believe that the company didn't have a more active hand in a ship that was sailing in proximity to a growing storm. Even if it was just a tropical storm at the time it left port, if I were the insurer I would be livid that someone with more regular access to data wasn't involved in the route planning.
That said, the email to company management and reply approving the proposed return course deviation tells me everything I need to know about decision making there.
If I were a major US shipping company I'd have an Operations Center that had a GPS tracker on EVERY asset in the naval inventory. Once an operations person saw the ship in proximity of the storm, the home office should have ordered the CO to deviate from his planned track.
I know the shipping industry has low margins but damn...
The naval tradition of the CO being God has lead to the loss of many lives.
This post was edited on 4/4/18 at 3:50 pm
Posted on 4/4/18 at 3:48 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
And the entire situation could have been avoided if they had just decided to go West and South of the Bahamas and tacked on the additional 6 hours.
Hell even if they had just turned more towards the south at San Salvador they would have avoided the eye wall.
And if they had been 6 hours late, how would that conversation have gone?
"Why we're you late?! We have a schedule and contractual obligations!"
"Well there was an unpredictable Cat fricking 3 in the middle of our path and this old arse ship gets old weather info and doesn't even have a working anemometer."
"Yeah ok good point. Glad y'all are ok."
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