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re: Terrorist watch list and being able to purchase a firearm
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:25 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:25 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
The 14th amendment makes clear that it is unconstitutional to deprive someone of constitutional rights without due process. Considering the FBI DOES NOT need to deal with due process to get people on the lists, such a gun restriction is unconstitutional under the 14th amendment.
0
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:25 pm to tylercsbn9
quote:
wanna ban guns?
put everyone's name on the terrorist list.
no more second amendment
This is why these conversations get no where - neither side is willing to be even remotely practical.
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:25 pm to Boston911
The terrorist watch list has little to no control over it. I am against taking away civil liberties without proven beyond a doubt guilt. The watch lists do not even remotely satisfy that.
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:25 pm to Boston911
This shouldn't even be a question.
Eta: I hate politics
Eta: I hate politics
This post was edited on 6/14/16 at 8:32 pm
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:26 pm to Ace Midnight
Yup, as long as there is a way to get off the list in a reasonable(less than 30 days) amount of time. I'm all for a list of some sort.
Ill let people smarter than me devise it and present and then we can all vote on it. Isn't that how its supposed to work?
Ill let people smarter than me devise it and present and then we can all vote on it. Isn't that how its supposed to work?
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:27 pm to Boston911
quote:how long do you think it would take until all gun owners are on that list in one fashion or another?
What's the OT's thoughts on prohibiting those on terrorist watch list from being able to purchase a firearm.
I
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:28 pm to slackster
quote:
However, the other side is going to say that denying those rights to someone erroneously here or there is peanuts if the alternative is that a person on the list for good reason can walk in and buy whatever weapon they'd like, and I'm not sure they're wrong.
That's the beauty of our country. If enough people want it changed we can pass an amendment
This post was edited on 6/14/16 at 8:30 pm
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:29 pm to notiger1997
quote:
Just depends on who gets to make decisions on who is added to terrorist watch list. And who gets to decide the definition of a terrorist. And , oh never mind. I don't trust the government much to regulate such things.
Clears throat...
quote:
In a survey we conducted with the Police Executive Research Forum last year of 382 law enforcement agencies, 74 percent reported anti-government extremism as one of the top three terrorist threats in their jurisdiction; 39 percent listed extremism connected with Al Qaeda or like-minded terrorist organizations. And only 3 percent identified the threat from Muslim extremists as severe, compared with 7 percent for anti-government and other forms of extremism.
The self-proclaimed Islamic State’s efforts to radicalize American Muslims, which began just after the survey ended, may have increased threat perceptions somewhat, but not by much, as we found in follow-up interviews over the past year with counterterrorism specialists at 19 law enforcement agencies. These officers, selected from urban and rural areas around the country, said that radicalization from the Middle East was a concern, but not as dangerous as radicalization among right-wing extremists.
An officer from a large metropolitan area said that “militias, neo-Nazis and sovereign citizens” are the biggest threat we face in regard to extremism. One officer explained that he ranked the right-wing threat higher because “it is an emerging threat that we don’t have as good of a grip on, even with our intelligence unit, as we do with the Al Shabab/Al Qaeda issue, which we have been dealing with for some time.” An officer on the West Coast explained that the “sovereign citizen” anti-government threat has “really taken off,” whereas terrorism by American Muslim is something “we just haven’t experienced yet.”
NY Times
Because the government is afraid of people who think in terms of the citizenship having a right to bear arms just in case said government needs to be shut down.
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:29 pm to notiger1997
quote:
Just depends on who gets to make decisions on who is added to terrorist watch list. And who gets to decide the definition of a terrorist. And , oh never mind. I don't trust the government much to regulate such things.
This!!!
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:30 pm to Boston911
That and a physcological eval should be requirements
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:30 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Because you have to be educated on the issue to discuss it a meaningful way. I'm sympathetic to this call to action, but I also recognize there are roughly 300k folks on this list
From FBI Terror Screening Website
LINK
Note: The numbers below are approximate as of September 2011 and are constantly being adjusted according to threat level and as intelligence is gathered.
?There are approximately 420,000 individuals on the Terrorist Watchlist.
?Approximately 98 percent of these individuals are non-U.S. persons.
The No Fly List and Selectee Lists
?Inclusion on the No Fly List prohibits a known or suspected terrorist from boarding a commercial aircraft that departs from or arrives in the United States. It also prohibits an airplane carrying an individual on the No Fly List from transiting U.S. airspace. The Selectee List is used to perform additional screening on individuals.
?There are approximately 16,000 individuals on the No Fly List.
?There are fewer than 500 U.S. persons on the No Fly List at this time.
?There are approximately 16,000 individuals on the Selectee List.
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:30 pm to hawkster
quote:
If a person is truly so likely to be a terrorist that he should not be allowed to purchase a firearm, then he should be arrested because there are thousands of other ways, other than a retail gun purchase, to access weapons that could kill innocent people.
Bingo. Why is the right to bear arms the only thing stripped from a citizen on this "list"... Why not freedom of speech or religion as well? Why not just strip them all and get them out of the country?
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:31 pm to Boston911
RA'd, you mother fricker
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:32 pm to Geauxld Finger
quote:
That and a physcological eval should be requirements
So you ok with "evaluations" to "earn" a constitutionally protected right?
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:33 pm to airfernando
quote:
how long do you think it would take until all gun owners are on that list in one fashion or another?
Roughly .01% of the American population is on the terror watch list (using the 300k estimate). The idea that it is going to be used as some sort of tool to keep honest citizens from owning guns is tin foil shite IMO.
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:36 pm to BACONisMEATcandy
quote:
So you ok with "evaluations" to "earn" a constitutionally protected right?
The can of worms that will open
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:36 pm to EA6B
quote:
There are fewer than 500 U.S. persons on the No Fly List at this time
quote:
?There are approximately 420,000 individuals on the Terrorist Watchlist.
?Approximately 98 percent of these individuals are non-U.S. persons.
So 500 citizens on the no-fly list and 8400 citizens on the terror watch list, yet we've got to go out of our way to protect their right to buy a gun because we don't want the list to be abused? Doesn't seem like a very practical objection, does it?
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:36 pm to slackster
And the IRS never used its authority to target certain groups
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:37 pm to slackster
We should go out of our way to protect every citizens constitutional rights.
Posted on 6/14/16 at 8:39 pm to Tingle
quote:
Why would this even be a question?
See, this is the problem. You're told, "we want to ban terrorists from getting weapons." And you say, "well, shite. That sounds logical." But people are too lazy to stop and think about why and how. Then the NRA blocks bad legislation that you silly fricks thought would be a great idea, the libs call the NRA irrational lunatics and then you monkey dicks start believing them, because "it's a no brainer." Right?
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