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Started By
Message
re: Team Santa vs. Team Service Dog- Which Side Do You Choose?
Posted on 11/29/17 at 8:00 am to lsucoonass
Posted on 11/29/17 at 8:00 am to lsucoonass
quote:
While annual therapy and service dogs have great therapeutic effects, what would happen if the worker had a severe enough allergic reaction that required hospitalization?
The government says they must accommodate the service dog. Keep them separated but with equal accommodation (you can't put the service dog outside while the other patron is inside.)
However, it also states that if there is a direct threat to the health and safety of others, the dog can be removed if no other accommodations can help mitigate the threat. An anaphylactic allergy that is bad enough to cause hospitalization would probably meet that direct threat.
This post was edited on 11/29/17 at 8:06 am
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Posted on 11/29/17 at 8:08 am to McVick
This service dog bullshite is out of control. All these people are investing reason to keep thier dogs with them. You know who needs service dogs? Blind People that is it. Everything else is bullshite. A fricking dog can't do anything if you have a seizure.
Posted on 11/29/17 at 10:57 am to CaptainBrannigan
The girl has Rhett's Syndrome and seizures, the dog is a seizure alert dog. At one time the DSM included Rhett Syndrom as one of 5 Autism related conditions, it has not for the last 2 DSMs.
The US Department of Justice addressed this in the 2010 ADA Service Animal Requirements release
"Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals."
Just recently a federal judge granted an injunction preventing the removal of a service dog in a sorority house at Ohio State because another student in the house hase allergies and Chrons Disease that she claimed was being exacerbated by the service dog. He granted the injunction because the allergies did not raise to the level of being a disability and she failed to show that the service dog was the cause of her Chrons flareups.
Autism service dogs are very real and legitimate service dogs. They are trained to do things like break obsessive/compulsive tendencies, disrupt self injurious behavior, tracking in the case of a child that runs off in fight or flight mode. They have saved lives.
The US Department of Justice addressed this in the 2010 ADA Service Animal Requirements release
"Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals."
Just recently a federal judge granted an injunction preventing the removal of a service dog in a sorority house at Ohio State because another student in the house hase allergies and Chrons Disease that she claimed was being exacerbated by the service dog. He granted the injunction because the allergies did not raise to the level of being a disability and she failed to show that the service dog was the cause of her Chrons flareups.
Autism service dogs are very real and legitimate service dogs. They are trained to do things like break obsessive/compulsive tendencies, disrupt self injurious behavior, tracking in the case of a child that runs off in fight or flight mode. They have saved lives.
Posted on 11/29/17 at 10:59 am to Camaro
They weren't kicking the dog out. They just werent letting the dog get on Santa's lap.
Posted on 11/29/17 at 11:03 am to Displaced
They weren't letting it accompany the child with the disability.
Posted on 11/29/17 at 11:20 am to McVick
Santa. Based on the evidence given, I'm not sure how anybody could side with the mom here.
At some point, people will have to realize that being offended and not getting every single thing you want is fricking okay.
At some point, people will have to realize that being offended and not getting every single thing you want is fricking okay.
Posted on 11/29/17 at 11:30 am to Camaro
quote:
The girl has Rhett's Syndrome and seizures, the dog is a seizure alert dog. At one time the DSM included Rhett Syndrom as one of 5 Autism related conditions, it has not for the last 2 DSMs.
Autism service dogs are very real and legitimate service dogs. They are trained to do things like break obsessive/compulsive tendencies, disrupt self injurious behavior, tracking in the case of a child that runs off in fight or flight mode. They have saved lives.
This is an interesting case because you cannot keep the two separate like stated in the ADA because the service is the person that is allergic. The right thing to do in this case is to provide a Santa that isn't allergic and they gave her a time when they could get that Santa as they didn't have one at that time. This meets the intent of the ADA. The lady didn't accept that and she is a twat for it.
They are even offering to send one to her house that isn't allergic. She is throwing a fit and being a bitch. I'm very pro service dog, but in this case, it's team Santa all the way.
This post was edited on 11/29/17 at 11:31 am
Posted on 11/29/17 at 11:49 am to Dam Guide
Not really. It has been ruled on for over 20 years, taxi cabs cannot refuse service animals based on allergies. What the ADA guidance says is "When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility." It would be very difficult to show that meeting Santa is the same situation as spending all day in a classroom together.
Posted on 11/29/17 at 12:09 pm to Camaro
And it would be impossible to accommodate them by have them sit in different locations in the room or in different rooms because you are requiring the person with the allergy to directly interact with the dog in order to perform the service. You are twisting the intentions of the ADA.
If you are in a restaurant you can get another server who doesn't have an allergy to perform the service. If you are the only person playing Santa then you can't get another person to play Santa because there isn't another person playing Santa.
If you are in a restaurant you can get another server who doesn't have an allergy to perform the service. If you are the only person playing Santa then you can't get another person to play Santa because there isn't another person playing Santa.
Posted on 11/29/17 at 12:16 pm to Peazey
No I am basing it on various rulings made by the Department of Justice and federal judges. What part of taxi cabs are different locations?
Posted on 11/29/17 at 12:40 pm to Camaro
quote:
Autism service dogs are very real and legitimate service dogs. They are trained to do things like break obsessive/compulsive tendencies, disrupt self injurious behavior, tracking in the case of a child that runs off in fight or flight mode. They have saved lives.
Do you think any of this would have happened in the time it takes to have a picture made with Santa?
Posted on 11/29/17 at 12:56 pm to Christopher Columbo
First the dog in this case is a seizure alert dog, do I think the dog could have needed to alert to an impending seizure during a picture with Santa? Yes absolutely could.
Second I gave the tip of the iceberg as far as things a dog could be trained to do for a person with Autism, could they be needed to perform a task during a picture with Santa? Yes absolutely it could.
Is it needed to be performing a task or expected to perform a task at that moment to need to be accommodated? No
Second I gave the tip of the iceberg as far as things a dog could be trained to do for a person with Autism, could they be needed to perform a task during a picture with Santa? Yes absolutely it could.
Is it needed to be performing a task or expected to perform a task at that moment to need to be accommodated? No
Posted on 11/29/17 at 12:58 pm to Camaro
quote:
First the dog in this case is a seizure alert dog,
Link?
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:06 pm to Camaro
quote:
Not really. It has been ruled on for over 20 years, taxi cabs cannot refuse service animals based on allergies. What the ADA guidance says is "When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility." It would be very difficult to show that meeting Santa is the same situation as spending all day in a classroom together.
A lot of these have never really fought the case from a severe allergy stand point. A severe allergy is actually a disability and nulls the ADA service dog accommodation. A lot of these people that have fought it don't have medically proven severe allergies. Some idiots have even tried religion as a grounds to block service dogs as along with slight allergies.
I'm not sure if this Santa does or not, but a severe allergy is definitely allowed to stop this accommodation. Especially in a taxi cab, where a severe allergy would put both parties in great harm if the person couldn't operate their vehicle due to the allergy.
This post was edited on 11/29/17 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:22 pm to Dam Guide
quote:
A severe allergy is actually a disability and nulls the ADA service dog accommodation.
quote:
but a severe allergy is definitely allowed to stop this accommodation. Especially in a taxi cab, where a severe allergy would put both parties in great harm if the person couldn't operate their vehicle due to the allergy.
Link?
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:23 pm to Dam Guide
The only federal law that offers specific guidance on how exactly to handle that situation is the Air Carriers Access Act. Which says:
* If a passenger provides credible verbal assurances, or medical documentation, that he or she has an allergy to a particular sort of animal that rises to the level of a disability (e.g., produces shock or respiratory distress that could require emergency or significant medical treatment), and there is a service animal of that kind seated nearby, the carrier should try to place as much distance as possible between the service animal and the individual with the allergy. Depending on where the passengers are initially seated, this could involve moving both passengers. For example, if both are seated toward the center of the cabin, one could be moved to the front and the other to the back.
* There may be situations in which, with respect to
a passenger who brings a very serious potential allergy situation to the attention of your personnel, it is appropriate to seek a medical certificate for the passenger.
Now again it would be tough to argue that the brief encounter is the same as being on a flight. That the allergy is so severe that the dog could not be a couple feet away yet the child that is with the dog 24/7 and covered in allergens would be ok sitting on his lap, which he did not have a problem with. Federal laws protect the right to be accompanied by a service animal, they do not rescind that right without clear documented proof that there is a need to, which by all indications he did not have.
* If a passenger provides credible verbal assurances, or medical documentation, that he or she has an allergy to a particular sort of animal that rises to the level of a disability (e.g., produces shock or respiratory distress that could require emergency or significant medical treatment), and there is a service animal of that kind seated nearby, the carrier should try to place as much distance as possible between the service animal and the individual with the allergy. Depending on where the passengers are initially seated, this could involve moving both passengers. For example, if both are seated toward the center of the cabin, one could be moved to the front and the other to the back.
* There may be situations in which, with respect to
a passenger who brings a very serious potential allergy situation to the attention of your personnel, it is appropriate to seek a medical certificate for the passenger.
Now again it would be tough to argue that the brief encounter is the same as being on a flight. That the allergy is so severe that the dog could not be a couple feet away yet the child that is with the dog 24/7 and covered in allergens would be ok sitting on his lap, which he did not have a problem with. Federal laws protect the right to be accompanied by a service animal, they do not rescind that right without clear documented proof that there is a need to, which by all indications he did not have.
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:29 pm to McVick
quote:
Link?
Look at the ADA itself, it nulls if it doesn't meet reasonable accommodation. The problem is you don't usually see people with such severe allergies subjecting themselves to jobs where it's quite likely they would run into this allergy very frequently. If you have a severe allergy to a dog, like Camaro said above, you would be running to the hospital the first time some kid that just came from his house that had been playing with their pet dog. If you get the sniffles from dog dander, you just have to deal with it.
That's the problem with this case, what allergies does this Santa actually have and can he prove it.
This post was edited on 11/29/17 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 11/29/17 at 2:41 pm to Dam Guide
quote:
That's the problem with this case, what allergies does this Santa actually have and can he prove it.
So based on his actions and lack of documentation Santa violated the ADA? I would imagine if he had an environmental allergy so severe it could impair his major life activity he would be aware that this sort of thing could happen in a public setting and would consider (but not required) divulging such information to his employer in case he had a severe allergic reaction.
Who determines how far the service animal needed to be separated from Santa? According to the reports neither the child nor the mother requested the service animal to be in Santa's lap for the encounter. The mom stated she was told the stay off of the red carpet with the service animal, but what are the guidelines for a "safe distance" for someone with potentially life threatening environmental allergies? If removal from the environment is the answer, then how far is "safe"?
Posted on 11/29/17 at 3:09 pm to McVick
The employer is not required to provide a reasonable accommodation until one is requested. Once it is requested it will be considered to determine what is reasonable and medical documentation can be required as part of the determination process. Part of the determination would be does his disability (allergy) prevent him from performing his job responsibilities. So it is his responsibility. If he did not seek accommodation prior to the visit, announcing it then as a done deal is not how it works. The same way that an employee can't just show up for work with their service animal.
The ADA determined how far, and barring anything showing the need for that to be altered that is what must be followed.
§ 36.302 Modifications in policies, practices, or procedures.
(c) Service animals.
(7) Access to areas of a public accommodation. Individuals with disabilities shall be permitted to be accompanied by their service animals in all areas of a place of public accommodation where members of the public, program participants, clients, customers, patrons, or invitees, as relevant, are allowed to go.
The ADA determined how far, and barring anything showing the need for that to be altered that is what must be followed.
§ 36.302 Modifications in policies, practices, or procedures.
(c) Service animals.
(7) Access to areas of a public accommodation. Individuals with disabilities shall be permitted to be accompanied by their service animals in all areas of a place of public accommodation where members of the public, program participants, clients, customers, patrons, or invitees, as relevant, are allowed to go.
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