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quote:
A service animal is one that has been specially trained to assist with some disability or medical issue. A doctor’s letter doesn’t make an animal into a service animal.
You are talking about the ADA definition of service animal. The ADA does not apply to commercial air travel, the Air Carrier Access Act is the federal disability rights law that applies and its definition of service animal is different. Under it ESAs are service animals.
"Service Animal Any animal that is individually trained or able to provide assistance to a qualified person with a disability; or any animal shown by documentation to be necessary for the emotional well being of a passenger."
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re: Pics of your dogs
Posted by Camaro on 6/9/19 at 1:05 pm to X82ndTiger
re: Service dogs?
Posted by Camaro on 4/18/19 at 11:03 pm to HenryParsons
quote:
Aren't there 2 types? Service Animal and Emotional Support Animal
My understanding (and im probably wrong - correct me if so) is that a Service animal is protected by the ADA and can go anywhere but an emotional support animal is not.
As I said in the post above the most important question is which law applies. Using the ADA definition of service animal, the difference between a service animal and an ESA is the service animal is trained to perform a task to mitigate the person's disability. An ESA mitigates a person's disability by being there and is not trained to perform a task.
Under Titles II and III of the ADA which applies to state and local government activities, public transportation and public accommodations ESAs are not covered and not required to be allowed.
In housing under the Fair Housing Act and/or the Rehabilitation Act ESAs are treated exactly the same as service animals.
In commercial air travel under the Air Carrier Access Act ESAs are considered service animals.
In employment under Title I of the ADA ESAs can be a reasonable accommodation.
Under each of the federal laws that covers ESAs the person can be required to provide specific documentation from a treating licensed medical professional, the online certifications and registrations do not count.
re: Service dogs?
Posted by Camaro on 4/18/19 at 10:53 pm to Ponchy Tiger
There are multiple federal laws that apply to service animals and there are significant differences between the laws, so the first question always has to be which law applies?
A person in a public accommodation (such as a store) would be under Title III of the ADA. The best resource for these regulations is the US Department of Justice QandA sheet regarding service animals under Titles II and III of the ADA. https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
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Q5. Does the ADA require service animals to be professionally trained?
A. No. People with disabilities have the right to train the dog themselves and are not required to use a professional service dog training program.
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Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?
A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.
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Q8. Do service animals have to wear a vest or patch or special harness identifying them as service animals?
A. No. The ADA does not require service animals to wear a vest, ID tag, or specific harness.
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Q17. Does the ADA require that service animals be certified as service animals?
A. No. Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal, as a condition for entry.
There are individuals and organizations that sell service animal certification or registration documents online. These documents do not convey any rights under the ADA and the Department of Justice does not recognize them as proof that the dog is a service animal.
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Q22. Can service animals be any breed of dog?
A. Yes. The ADA does not restrict the type of dog breeds that can be service animals.
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Q28. What can my staff do when a service animal is being disruptive?
A. If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises.
A person in a public accommodation (such as a store) would be under Title III of the ADA. The best resource for these regulations is the US Department of Justice QandA sheet regarding service animals under Titles II and III of the ADA. https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
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Q5. Does the ADA require service animals to be professionally trained?
A. No. People with disabilities have the right to train the dog themselves and are not required to use a professional service dog training program.
====
Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?
A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.
====
Q8. Do service animals have to wear a vest or patch or special harness identifying them as service animals?
A. No. The ADA does not require service animals to wear a vest, ID tag, or specific harness.
====
Q17. Does the ADA require that service animals be certified as service animals?
A. No. Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal, as a condition for entry.
There are individuals and organizations that sell service animal certification or registration documents online. These documents do not convey any rights under the ADA and the Department of Justice does not recognize them as proof that the dog is a service animal.
====
Q22. Can service animals be any breed of dog?
A. Yes. The ADA does not restrict the type of dog breeds that can be service animals.
====
Q28. What can my staff do when a service animal is being disruptive?
A. If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises.
quote:
This is what you say when you hit someone first. You know if someone hit you first, you don't forget that.
Especially when she already said that she hit the woman with the dog first.
quote:
“When I went to go touch it she got mad, so we ended up having a conflict going back and forth arguing.”
The victim admitted things got out of control when – instead of continuing to walk off the bus – she went back and attacked the unknown woman after some more choice words.
“I went to go leave the bus and then she just did something that got me aggravated so I went back to her and once I grabbed her by her coat, she went to go hit me, when I hit her,” the scarred 22-year-old confessed.
“I don’t know, we ended up going to the floor and everything went black from there… got my face sliced and that was it.”
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/12/17/police-argument-on-bronx-bus-ends-with-woman-slashing-passengers-face/
quote:
ESAs are, for the most part, a bunch of crap
ESAs are a very useful tool for many people with disabilities and have been covered under federal law since before the ADA was passed.
quote:
But think dogs for “emotional support” is just a crock of shite and a way people get around taking their dogs everywhere. Only exception again being specially trained dogs for vets with PTSD.
I am not sure what exactly you mean with this statement. Dogs trained for PTSD are service animals not ESAs, so that is not an exception they are different things, or do you mean psychiatric service animals are a crock except for vets with PTSD?
An important and often misunderstood point with service animals is air travel. The ADA does not apply to air travel, so the ADA definition of service animal also does not apply. Under the Air Carrier Access Act regulations emotional support animals by definition are service animals. In my opinion it would have been better and less confusing if they had done like HUD with the FHA regulations and used an umbrella term like "Assistance Animal" which includes both ADA defined service animals and ESAs but they didn't.
So since it was on an airplane the dachshund could have been a legitimate ESA, but there are tasks that a dachshund could be trained to perform for a person's disability to make it a service animal under the ADA.
So since it was on an airplane the dachshund could have been a legitimate ESA, but there are tasks that a dachshund could be trained to perform for a person's disability to make it a service animal under the ADA.
re: Service dogs that are not really...
Posted by Camaro on 7/18/18 at 6:14 pm to ladygoodman
Think of it like when you are teaching someone something new, early on very attentive lots of instruction. At some point in the process you just observe and give minor corrections. It sounds like that is where they are at.
Training reinforcement is a never ending process for service dogs. Handlers are always looking to identify situations that they don't encounter frequently that they need to reinforce the training for. We rarely see other dogs, we were at a park with a friend who brought her little dog to get it exposed to a much larger dog. I wanted him in a down so the small dog could get used to him being there and he let out one whimper that he wanted to play. So over the next month one day a week I would go early to pick my son up from an activity so I could go to the park where people walk their dogs and reinforce his training to ignore other dogs. I would sit on a park bench reading and give minor corrections when needed.
Hope that all made sense and clears it up some for you.
Training reinforcement is a never ending process for service dogs. Handlers are always looking to identify situations that they don't encounter frequently that they need to reinforce the training for. We rarely see other dogs, we were at a park with a friend who brought her little dog to get it exposed to a much larger dog. I wanted him in a down so the small dog could get used to him being there and he let out one whimper that he wanted to play. So over the next month one day a week I would go early to pick my son up from an activity so I could go to the park where people walk their dogs and reinforce his training to ignore other dogs. I would sit on a park bench reading and give minor corrections when needed.
Hope that all made sense and clears it up some for you.
What I see is that people take advantage of ignorance and apathy. The law gives businesses the tools to address fakes, but they don't bother to learn them or chose not to use them. In the cases where a business does what it is supposed to do, too often the media does an ill-informed report on it vilifying the business and the general public gets outraged despite knowing little about service animals and what the laws say and most of what they know is wrong.
Yes every post is about service dogs, I am a service dog handler. I get notifications of service dog stories, I got a notification from a thread on here awhile ago so I joined because there was a great deal of misinformation being given in it.
Therapy dogs are dogs that are trained and certified by an organization and then invited go to places like hospitals, rest homes, libraries, schools, etc to provide therapy to the people there. They are not service animals and they are not covered under any of the federal disability laws.
Read that sign again blind, deaf or disabled/handicapped. It does not say physically handicapped.
Therapy dogs are dogs that are trained and certified by an organization and then invited go to places like hospitals, rest homes, libraries, schools, etc to provide therapy to the people there. They are not service animals and they are not covered under any of the federal disability laws.
Read that sign again blind, deaf or disabled/handicapped. It does not say physically handicapped.
re: Service dogs that are not really...
Posted by Camaro on 7/18/18 at 4:18 pm to ladygoodman
Most states have laws that cover service dogs in training, though they can put whatever stipulations they want, so the conditions to be covered varies greatly from state to state.
Some service dog handlers depending on the situation allow people to greet their service dog. If the handler had allowed that before you got to them the dog could have thought it was still ok to greet, correction from the handler, and oh ok back to work. Service dogs no matter how well trained aren't always perfect.
Nothing from your description would lead me to think it is a fake. Which is part of the problem, you aren't sure and are asking, most people don't, it is "saw a fake service dog at the store" when it wasn't fake at all.
Some service dog handlers depending on the situation allow people to greet their service dog. If the handler had allowed that before you got to them the dog could have thought it was still ok to greet, correction from the handler, and oh ok back to work. Service dogs no matter how well trained aren't always perfect.
Nothing from your description would lead me to think it is a fake. Which is part of the problem, you aren't sure and are asking, most people don't, it is "saw a fake service dog at the store" when it wasn't fake at all.
re: Delta bans pit bulls as service dogs due to safety concerns
Posted by Camaro on 6/25/18 at 4:35 pm to Fearthehat0307
quote:
ok, whether we agree or disagree with the ban, they have every right to do it. Not sure where the unconstitutionality it comes from
They do not have the right to do it. The U.S. Department of Transportation issued a statement on Friday saying: “A limitation based exclusively on breed of the service animal is not allowed under the Department’s Air Carrier Access Act regulation.”
A few important things that are often mistaken. The ADA of 1990 does not apply to commercial air travel. The Air Carrier Access Act of 1986 is the federal law that does apply, it is regulated by the DoT. Under the current ACAA regulations emotional support animals by definition are service animals. The regulations also require that all service animals (ESAs included) must be trained to behave appropriately in public settings. They also allow airlines to require 48 hours advance notice and specific documentation from a treating licensed mental health professional for Psychiatric Service Dogs (as defined by the ADA) and ESAs.
The employer is not required to provide a reasonable accommodation until one is requested. Once it is requested it will be considered to determine what is reasonable and medical documentation can be required as part of the determination process. Part of the determination would be does his disability (allergy) prevent him from performing his job responsibilities. So it is his responsibility. If he did not seek accommodation prior to the visit, announcing it then as a done deal is not how it works. The same way that an employee can't just show up for work with their service animal.
The ADA determined how far, and barring anything showing the need for that to be altered that is what must be followed.
§ 36.302 Modifications in policies, practices, or procedures.
(c) Service animals.
(7) Access to areas of a public accommodation. Individuals with disabilities shall be permitted to be accompanied by their service animals in all areas of a place of public accommodation where members of the public, program participants, clients, customers, patrons, or invitees, as relevant, are allowed to go.
The ADA determined how far, and barring anything showing the need for that to be altered that is what must be followed.
§ 36.302 Modifications in policies, practices, or procedures.
(c) Service animals.
(7) Access to areas of a public accommodation. Individuals with disabilities shall be permitted to be accompanied by their service animals in all areas of a place of public accommodation where members of the public, program participants, clients, customers, patrons, or invitees, as relevant, are allowed to go.
The only federal law that offers specific guidance on how exactly to handle that situation is the Air Carriers Access Act. Which says:
* If a passenger provides credible verbal assurances, or medical documentation, that he or she has an allergy to a particular sort of animal that rises to the level of a disability (e.g., produces shock or respiratory distress that could require emergency or significant medical treatment), and there is a service animal of that kind seated nearby, the carrier should try to place as much distance as possible between the service animal and the individual with the allergy. Depending on where the passengers are initially seated, this could involve moving both passengers. For example, if both are seated toward the center of the cabin, one could be moved to the front and the other to the back.
* There may be situations in which, with respect to
a passenger who brings a very serious potential allergy situation to the attention of your personnel, it is appropriate to seek a medical certificate for the passenger.
Now again it would be tough to argue that the brief encounter is the same as being on a flight. That the allergy is so severe that the dog could not be a couple feet away yet the child that is with the dog 24/7 and covered in allergens would be ok sitting on his lap, which he did not have a problem with. Federal laws protect the right to be accompanied by a service animal, they do not rescind that right without clear documented proof that there is a need to, which by all indications he did not have.
* If a passenger provides credible verbal assurances, or medical documentation, that he or she has an allergy to a particular sort of animal that rises to the level of a disability (e.g., produces shock or respiratory distress that could require emergency or significant medical treatment), and there is a service animal of that kind seated nearby, the carrier should try to place as much distance as possible between the service animal and the individual with the allergy. Depending on where the passengers are initially seated, this could involve moving both passengers. For example, if both are seated toward the center of the cabin, one could be moved to the front and the other to the back.
* There may be situations in which, with respect to
a passenger who brings a very serious potential allergy situation to the attention of your personnel, it is appropriate to seek a medical certificate for the passenger.
Now again it would be tough to argue that the brief encounter is the same as being on a flight. That the allergy is so severe that the dog could not be a couple feet away yet the child that is with the dog 24/7 and covered in allergens would be ok sitting on his lap, which he did not have a problem with. Federal laws protect the right to be accompanied by a service animal, they do not rescind that right without clear documented proof that there is a need to, which by all indications he did not have.
re: Team Santa vs. Team Service Dog- Which Side Do You Choose?
Posted by Camaro on 11/29/17 at 1:12 pm to ClientNumber9
re: Team Santa vs. Team Service Dog- Which Side Do You Choose?
Posted by Camaro on 11/29/17 at 12:56 pm to Christopher Columbo
First the dog in this case is a seizure alert dog, do I think the dog could have needed to alert to an impending seizure during a picture with Santa? Yes absolutely could.
Second I gave the tip of the iceberg as far as things a dog could be trained to do for a person with Autism, could they be needed to perform a task during a picture with Santa? Yes absolutely it could.
Is it needed to be performing a task or expected to perform a task at that moment to need to be accommodated? No
Second I gave the tip of the iceberg as far as things a dog could be trained to do for a person with Autism, could they be needed to perform a task during a picture with Santa? Yes absolutely it could.
Is it needed to be performing a task or expected to perform a task at that moment to need to be accommodated? No
No I am basing it on various rulings made by the Department of Justice and federal judges. What part of taxi cabs are different locations?
Not really. It has been ruled on for over 20 years, taxi cabs cannot refuse service animals based on allergies. What the ADA guidance says is "When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility." It would be very difficult to show that meeting Santa is the same situation as spending all day in a classroom together.
They weren't letting it accompany the child with the disability.
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