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Message
re: St Louis: Unarmed teen shot and killed by police, riot in progress.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:36 pm to igoringa
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:36 pm to igoringa
quote:
If you mean whether I put jaywalking and riot/looting on the same level, then yes you are correct.
No. I'm merely making the point that you aren't nearly as concerned with selective application of the law as you are with it in this instance.
1
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:38 pm to reedus23
quote:
I am curious as to why?
It would have kept the situation local, not national. Al Sharpton isn't going to put his face on TV to defend a petty thief.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:38 pm to undecided
quote:
Apparently that's what the police did
And that is one of the most despicable things in this whole mess. Sit back and think about that... everyone knew that an already victim was going to be a target that night for absolutely no reason then being robbed by the wrong thug.... and the response from the police is you are on your own - we don't want to upset the looters.
How all people are not outraged is amazing to me.
quote:
My post have been related specifically to last night. I'm not arguing that should be the long term plan but that it was the best plan for last night outside of full engagement. There's a press conference scheduled for 3 today during which I hope a concrete strategy
Maybe next time to cut down the confusion they can post posters announcing free anarchy night where you can loot and riot all you want until you piss off your neighbors enough that they stop you and/or you get bored and need some sleep.
Sounds sweet.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:38 pm to igoringa
quote:
Gotcha so it is pretty standard for cops to just videotape or hope someone else is videotaping crimes while they occur so they can chase them down months later? Riggghhhtttt.
We'll just agree to disagree. Did I say it was standard? No. But this isn't a standard situation.
quote:
You mean enforce the law?!?!? Now why would I want cops to do that? I prefer anarchy ofcourse. I am just wondering why we have police there to begin with. they can watch CNN at home with me. Their presence after all is the problem, right?
But you didn't answer my question, what do you think would have happened if the police had moved in with force to arrest those looters?
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:42 pm to reedus23
quote:
Not only has he handled things poorly, but he has actually made matters worse. And by saying that, I am NOT letting the looters/rioters off the hook. They deserve and should get theirs. But that doesn't mean there isn't other blame to go around.
He has been an idiot. Period. that increases frustration - but nobody has done anything, and I mean anything to warrant the riot and looting that has occurred. Idiot chief communicating in an idiot way does not remotely warrant that activity.
It amazes me how we race to say he incites things, nothing he said warrants that. Nothing.
But yes - idiot that should be fired. As we do in civil societies. The fact we all gump when he says something stupid and think about how it affect the night is not a him problem, that is the riot/looter society problem - and we inadvertently scapegoat every time we correlate them.
But again, he needs to be fired.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:43 pm to igoringa
We need to have a female owner of a business go on tv sobbing about how their business has been destroyed and life has been ruined by these thug looters and that the police department is not doing anything about it. They should then start pleading for help from anybody who can help save their town from these thug looters, and request militia groups, biker gangs, or anybody else who could help. You may have a little violence at first but my bet is that these looters are thugs and will stop when they are challenged. Since all of the looters and rioters are outsiders, everybody wins except the those breaking the law. Allowing people to loot without repercussion will only encourage future behavior.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:44 pm to Kirk Herbstreit
I'm actually surprised no biker gangs showed up. St. Louis is a notorious biker gang haven.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:45 pm to the808bass
quote:
Cops selectively enforce the law all the time.
Not just that, but I think it just comes down to a philosophical difference of opinion as to the function of police officers. And that is why me and him will never agree. And I don't know if there's a right or wrong.
Are they peace officers, there to maintain the peace the best they can? If that is it, I'd suggest that the approach last night, while not peaceful, maintained the peace more than storming in would do.
Are they there to serve and protect? If so, I'd again suggest that for the community as a whole, last nights approach served these aims. While a few businesses admittedly were not protected, the community at large (meaning the other 100's of businesses in the community) were protected by not escalating matters.
Are they there as law enforcement? In other words are they there to enforce the laws. If that is the aim, then last night's approach failed and the more militant approach is proper.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:45 pm to the808bass
quote:
No. I'm merely making the point that you aren't nearly as concerned with selective application of the law as you are with it in this instance.
Which is why I asked you to present a comparable situation so we could compare apples to apples.
there isn't a human being in the world that would say leniency with jaywalking is the equivalent of watching, for example, a murder occurring.
So if you are saying I am like everybody then you got me.
If you have a comparable level of crime that you wish to provide to show my inconsistency - feel free.
But yes cops watching riots and looting for hours bothers me a lot more then them letting someone go 52 in a 50. You got me. Here is your cookie.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:47 pm to reedus23
quote:
But you didn't answer my question, what do you think would have happened if the police had moved in with force to arrest those looters?
They would have arrested looters
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:48 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
I said it last night. There was information readily available that would've mitigated the outrage. But, they refused to be transparent and, in doing so, only portrayed themselves as disconnected public servants trying to protect "the man".
The looters and rioters will use ANY excuse to commit anarchy, and the police department and mayor's office gave them exactly that.
I agree with all of this, particularly with some of the other stuff that has come out such as the robbery, videotape etc. I suppose you can't have partial transparency though so it would have to include the name.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:49 pm to igoringa
quote:
@ShaunKing: Wow. I just got some CRAZY inside information. Darren Wilson, recently divorced is dating another officer. Here is what she's telling folk..
So apparently that was his girlfriend who called into the radio station yesterday
My question is why would she as an officer on the force and his girlfriend be the one to call into the radio station? I would assume all "officers" have been told to have no contact with the media?
*Correction, according to the New York Times
quote:
Records indicate that he was divorced last year and now lives there with Barbara Spradling, also a police officer,
This post was edited on 8/16/14 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:50 pm to the808bass
quote:
marijuana
Marijuana won't help convince me he charged an armed cop who had already shot at him. We'll see what all the witnesses (including the cop) have to say.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:50 pm to Kirk Herbstreit
I also think Jay Nixon needs to have a little chat with Mayor Slay.
This jerkoff has been stirring the pot since the first day force was used. He wants his parrot in there taking charge.
acting like he and his force would of done a much better job and acting like he's appalled at their actions.
Go away Slay, u have a shite ton of stuff to worry about downtown, the last of it should be What the Chief of STLCo has done.
This jerkoff has been stirring the pot since the first day force was used. He wants his parrot in there taking charge.
acting like he and his force would of done a much better job and acting like he's appalled at their actions.
Go away Slay, u have a shite ton of stuff to worry about downtown, the last of it should be What the Chief of STLCo has done.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:53 pm to stlslick
Cops not enforcing the laws sets a horrible precedent that will be used by thugs everywhere they can.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:53 pm to igoringa
quote:
What is a comparable example to a line of police officers watching riots and looting of several businesses?
First thing that jumped to my mind, and I haven't thought it out, so there admittedly might be flaws, but how is it different than hostage situations? They don't go in guns blazing right off the bat. For the lives and safety of the innocent, they try to negotiate and come to a peaceful resolution first and if that doesn't work they go in forcefully. A bit bigger and different scale because we're talking about a community, not a bank, but what are your thoughts?
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:54 pm to Paige
quote:
Does a tox report really take two weeks?
No.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 2:56 pm to reedus23
quote:
Not just that, but I think it just comes down to a philosophical difference of opinion as to the function of police officers.
yes we will never agree if you do not believe that law enforcement means law enforcement. I am not sure what law enforcement means if it does not mean law enforcement.
quote:
Are they there to serve and protect? If so, I'd again suggest that for the community as a whole, last nights approach served these aims.
I love the community as a whole angle. Sorry Mr Store Owner, I know you should were brazenly robbed by a thug, but because of that your place is toast tonight. Ok thanks - we will send you a link on facebook if you want to see it live.
quote:
While a few businesses admittedly were not protected, the community at large (meaning the other 100's of businesses in the community) were protected by not escalating matters.
gosh, not sure if it was you or undecided, but one of you posted there were 6 or 12 looters out there yesterday. There were also plenty of posts that it was overblown and the media wasn't showing the community stepping up. Seems slight inconsistent to talk about 100s of stores. But again, who cares - it was a free anarchy night. whether it was 3,5,10, or 50 - why stop them. Where is the magic line that looters/rioters stop being cute, adorable and acceptable and become a problem?
quote:
Are they there as law enforcement?
If not, then lets not call them law enforcement and cut their numbers down to a dude on the corner in case you get a flat tire.
So if looting starts tonight, what should the police do?
Posted on 8/16/14 at 3:02 pm to igoringa
quote:
but nobody has done anything, and I mean anything to warrant the riot and looting that has occurred.
We agree.
quote:
But again, he needs to be fired.
Then we agree again and I don't know why I have been debating you. That's all I've been saying.
Posted on 8/16/14 at 3:02 pm to reedus23
quote:
First thing that jumped to my mind, and I haven't thought it out, so there admittedly might be flaws, but how is it different than hostage situations?
So if they thought a hostage situation was likely, hours in advance do they sit there and tell the potential hostages hours in advance you are on your own? When it happens do they watch with no attempt to look for a solution or arrest. But yes rioters and looters took the town hostage... again. Maybe we need to ask nicer next time?
quote:
For the lives and safety of the innocent, they try to negotiate and come to a peaceful resolution first and if that doesn't work they go in forcefully.
Sorry I missed the negotiation part last night? Was that before or after the head rubbing?
I don't mean to make light of your example because I asked for one... but I don't recall hostage situations ever being handled remotely close to this. I mean it was like working a night shift. After a hard night of looting/hostage taking I decided to walk past the police home?
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