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re: Someone gonna get paid.. Did the water do this?
Posted on 3/3/16 at 9:31 am to ManBearTiger
Posted on 3/3/16 at 9:31 am to ManBearTiger
quote:
The people on those lists generally aren't looking for the kind of babies that are typically aborted.
Is that right?
1
Posted on 3/3/16 at 9:39 am to StickyFingaz
Still not the child's fault man.
There's not one thing you can say that can justify the killing of a child because the mother doesn't want it. I'm a reasonable person and will change sides on a subject if the opposing side presents a compelling enough argument to me. But there's literally no reason that somebody should abort their child. No reason.
There's not one thing you can say that can justify the killing of a child because the mother doesn't want it. I'm a reasonable person and will change sides on a subject if the opposing side presents a compelling enough argument to me. But there's literally no reason that somebody should abort their child. No reason.
This post was edited on 3/3/16 at 9:45 am
Posted on 3/3/16 at 9:42 am to OceanMan
quote:
s that right?
Yes, it is. See my link.
People are too uptight and worried about being PC to even acknowledge things that are plain as day.
This post was edited on 3/3/16 at 9:43 am
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:03 am to StickyFingaz
quote:
A choice not to support them? Sure
No, to kill them.
quote:
This is getting into an entire new topic. However, a healthy individual should be able to find work and not rely on welfare.
No, it's not a different topic. Your talking points about abortion are designed to support a position, which appears to be (loosely) "women's rights". I think the argument ignores the larger problem. Are we worried that this baby will be a burden on society, and that is why we justify letting them die? Why are we leaving this judgement in the hands of someone who apparently (oftentimes) lacks judgement?
What is the actual justification for abortion? If it is to relieve a (potential) burden on society, what is your stance on actual and current burdens on society? Should they be killed? Who gets a say? When you remove the morality aspect of killing a human, which the pro-abortion side inherently does, why is the line drawn at when the human is inside of a woman's stomach?
To be clear, I am trying to get you to understand that abortion is a larger issue than a woman getting to decide what she does with her body. When you keep the discussion that narrow, you will never actually grasp the other sides perspective.
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:12 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
There's not one thing you can say that can justify the killing of a child because the mother doesn't want it
There everyone. Stop arguing with him.
Weeeeee
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:17 am to ManBearTiger
quote:
Yes, it is. See my link.
People are too uptight and worried about being PC to even acknowledge things that are plain as day.
You are making generalizations here, which doesn't help to support any argument. There is a preference towards non black babies, of 7x according to your opinion piece (it is labeled that way); I'm a little confused how that was quantified, and was not explained in the article. Also, it points to the amount a couple may be wiling to pay for a black or not black baby; but this ignores that supply might be driving price as much as demand.
Ok, so for whatever reason, black babies appear to be less "desirable" than other babies in the US for prospective adopting parents. Twenty three percent of babies that are adopted are black. So while they may be less desirable, given all options available, they still are adopted at a rate well above their demographic makeup in the US (which is moreso true than nay other race). Saying they are less desirable, is ignoring that they are still getting adopted, which I took to be your original position.
Believe me, I am not too PC to acknowledge anything.
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:25 am to Deactived
quote:
There everyone. Stop arguing with him.
Weeeeee
Yeah, the abortion argument is dependent on something you can't prove, and that's when life begins (when the body and soul become one).
You either believe it happens at conception or you don't. You can't change how people feel in their hearts.
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:30 am to OceanMan
You are very narrow minded
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:30 am to SabiDojo
Well said
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:32 am to sicboy
quote:
We'll call anything that isn't a red rock on Mars life, but we have something with a heartbeat here and "it can't do addition yet, that doesn't count as life"
This is the part that I just cannot wrap my head around.
Oh shite, there's water on another planet and possibly a microbe somewhere living in it. We're not alone in the universe!!!!
Wait, you say you don't want your baby? Let me just use this vacuum with a razor attached to the end and suck out all of the baby's body parts after I dismember it. No big deal.
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:36 am to OceanMan
Dude, there's really no arguing this point. It's a nasty fact.
65% of orphan children are black and yet they only account for 23% of overall adoptions.
Non-blacks seek to become adoptive parents at a much, much higher rate than blacks, although I'm having trouble finding the figure for that... but it's an undeniable truth.
Race absolutely plays a role in the process, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.
Again, I don't know what you find debateable about this, seems like you're just doing some handwringing over the situation.
All this to say that if not for abortion, the amount of black unwanted, unloved, tetherless children would grow exponentially with the progression of time.
65% of orphan children are black and yet they only account for 23% of overall adoptions.
Non-blacks seek to become adoptive parents at a much, much higher rate than blacks, although I'm having trouble finding the figure for that... but it's an undeniable truth.
Race absolutely plays a role in the process, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.
Again, I don't know what you find debateable about this, seems like you're just doing some handwringing over the situation.
All this to say that if not for abortion, the amount of black unwanted, unloved, tetherless children would grow exponentially with the progression of time.
This post was edited on 3/3/16 at 10:41 am
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:42 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
So by your reasoning, even though the child is alive in the womb, needs basic things to STAY ALIVE, like food, water, etc. that child is not what it in fact is...a child? What's your opinion of late term abortion then? When the child is taken out of the womb fully formed?
It's non of my goddamn business. If I think it's wrong or not is completely irrelevant. What someone chooses to do is nobodies business but their own and it is not within my rights to make decisions for them. If it is my kid, perhaps I would have some say so but it's not my body so all I could do would be make a suggestion.
Hate it all you want, but we don't make laws that govern other people based on our personal or religious beliefs when the outcome does not infringe on a non involved person's rights.
quote:
And since babies won't remember anything till ~3-4 years of age should we be allowed to kill the child then as well?
This is fricking stupid. I am ashamed that I am even dignifying it with a response.
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:45 am to Barf
quote:
It's non of my goddamn business. If I think it's wrong or not is completely irrelevant. What someone chooses to do is nobodies business but their own and it is not within my rights to make decisions for them. If it is my kid, perhaps I would have some say so but it's not my body so all I could do would be make a suggestion.
This reasoning is the perfect example of American culture.
This isn't the attitude just towards government. It's the attitude towards ANYONE.
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:47 am to StickyFingaz
quote:
You are very narrow minded
Why do you say that? I literally said that this is a larger issue than "womans rights" and gave an explanation of my reasoning, yet I am narrow minded?
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:54 am to OceanMan
quote:
So while they may be less desirable, given all options available, they still are adopted at a rate well above their demographic makeup in the US (which is moreso true than nay other race).
Was this a point for your argument?
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:56 am to OceanMan
Because you are trying to lump things together that aren't related. You are saying a group of undifferentiated cells are the same as a living, breathing, selfsustaining, fully developed human and it's not the case.
ETA and we know why welfare has gotten out of hand, and it has nothing to do with helping those in need.
ETA and we know why welfare has gotten out of hand, and it has nothing to do with helping those in need.
This post was edited on 3/3/16 at 10:57 am
Posted on 3/3/16 at 10:58 am to Deactived
Yeah, I feel like he wants to hem and haw because the stats are icky, but he just doesn't have a point himself.
Posted on 3/3/16 at 11:01 am to OceanMan
quote:
To be clear, I am trying to get you to understand that abortion is a larger issue than a woman getting to decide what she does with her body. When you keep the discussion that narrow, you will never actually grasp the other sides perspective.
But it's not a larger issue. There are no morality police in this country. You have to ask yourself if little Susie down the street has an abortion, does it negatively impact your unalienable rights. If it does not, you need to move along.
We are governed by law, not by moral code.
Posted on 3/3/16 at 11:03 am to Barf
quote:
Hate it all you want, but we don't make laws that govern other people based on our personal or religious beliefs when the outcome does not infringe on a non involved person's rights.
What the hell are you talking about? We have laws requiring people to be 21 to buy alcohol, 18 to smoke, marijuana illegal, suicide illegal (to aid or attempt), and on and on and on.
And is the aborted child not an involved person? SCOTUS even said in Roe v. Wade that the State has a legitimate interest in protecting potential human life.
Posted on 3/3/16 at 11:04 am to ManBearTiger
quote:
Race absolutely plays a role in the process, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.
Again, I don't know what you find debateable about this, seems like you're just doing some handwringing over the situation.
I don't know how I can be more clear. I am arguing what I took as your original position that since they are less desirable for prospective adopting parents, then it doesn't matter if they ever make it to the adoptive pool in the first place. My argument was that while they are seen as "undesirable", they are still adopted at a higher rate, as a % of demographic makeup, than any other race in the US. In other words, less desirable does not equal not desired at all.
quote:
All this to say that if not for abortion, the amount of black unwanted, unloved, tetherless children would grow exponentially with the progression of time.
Right, no argument on that front. I get your point, but it doesn't change that 1 out of 4 adoptions are black kids, and they play a big part in the adoption pool, regardless of how the ones that don't get adopted turn out.
quote:
65% of orphan children are black and yet they only account for 23% of overall adoptions.
I also would like to point out that these populations are not the same. I would be willing to bet that not all of those orphans were put up for adoption as newborns, which is the population that would need to be compared to the 23%.
I'm not arguing facts, I'm arguing your interpretation of the facts.
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