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re: So im more convinced than ever that the govt allowed 9/11 to happen

Posted on 8/8/17 at 11:28 am to
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140573 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 11:28 am to
quote:

First it's explosions now it's thermite, now it's controlled det, now it's thermite


Nano-thermite is explosive. Nano-thermite is a military grade thermite with the same composition as commercial grade thermite (BTW, thermite is easy to make) but much smaller crystalline structure.
quote:


Active Thermitic Material

Unexploded Energetic Materials Found in WTC Dust

In November of 2007, Steven E. Jones, having earlier shown the presence of aluminothermic residues in World Trade Center dust samples in the form of solidified iron-rich droplets, announced his discovery of particles of unreacted thermitic materials, in the form of bi-layered chips with gray and red layers. The chips, which are attracted by a magnet, have about the thickness of an eggshell but are much tougher. The red layers have elemental compositions similar to commercial thermite, and to the iron-rich droplets, according to Jones, with spikes for oxygen, iron, aluminum, potassium, and silicon. Jones describes experiments in which the chips burn vigorously when ignited by a torch. 1

One difference between the composition of the red layers and that of simple thermite preparations is the layers' abundance of carbon and silicon. The significance of the carbon would become more clear as Jones and his collegues continued to study the samples and research the state of the art of high-tech aluminothermics in 2001. Carbon and silicon are often major constituents of energetic nano-composites or "super-thermites", forming a matrix that holds the nano-sized iron oxide and aluminum particles in close proximity within a tough, stable material.

Additionally, silicon oxides may participate in the thermite reaction as oxidizers of aluminum, and carbon compounds may increase the explosive power of such preparations by generating high gas pressures.

LINK
Detailed Analysis of the Chips Provided by 2009 Paper

In April of 2009, the paper Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe documented the detailed analysis of the red-gray chips that had been performed by the authors using analytical instruments such as scanning electron microscopy with X-ray energy-dispersive spectroscopy and differential scanning calorimetry. 2 The paper, summarized in the essay Explosives Found in World Trade Center Dust, includes detailed descriptions of the physical structure of the chips, the chemical compositions of their components, and the chips' thermal behavior.

The gray layers are a homogeneous material consisting mostly of iron and oxygen, whereas the red layers are a nano-structured composite material, in which thin plates of mostly elemental aluminum and faceted grains of mostly oxides of iron are embedded in a mesoporous material of mostly silicon and oxygen. The plates and grains, which are highly consistent in shape and size, are only 40nm thick and 100nm in diameter, respectively.

Portion of Fig. 4 from Active Thermititic Material Discovered. The corner of a red-gray chip, with the gray and red layers labeled:


References

1. Dr. Steven E. Jones Announces New Discovery: Red/gray Bi-layered Chips in WTC Dust, stj911.org, 12/15/2007
2. Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe, The Open Chemical Physics Journal, 4/3/2009

LINK
Posted by TheGasMan
Member since Oct 2014
3485 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 11:40 am to
The seismic records from nearby seismometers would've picked up the detonation charges you're claiming took down WTC7.

You never see that in the records. What you do see is the signature a geophysicists would expect to see from a collapsing building, but certainly no indication of any sort of initial explosions.

We went over this over a few day period in graduate school in one of my geophysics class. Pretty cool stuff.

I'm too lazy to link the actual seismographs while on my phone, but look up Columbia University 9/11 seismology or something along those lines and you'll see them.
This post was edited on 8/8/17 at 11:45 am
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138920 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 11:42 am to
quote:

Nano-thermite is explosive. Nano-thermite is a military grade thermite with the same composition as commercial grade thermite (BTW, thermite is easy to make) but much smaller crystalline structure.

If the point of the "nano-thermite" is to weaken the steel by melting it, why would you want an explosion that throws the material all over the place? It makes more sense just to set it off with a simple incendiary initiator, not a blasting cap or explosion. You truthers are so inconsistent and use absolutely zero logic. The fact that you can't look at things from a "what would I do to be covert about this" is your Achilles heel 100% of the time.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140573 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:03 pm to
quote:

The seismic records from nearby seismometers would've picked up the detonation charges you're claiming took down WTC7.


Here are the seismic records. LINK

Someone dealing with seismology on a regular basis will have to point out the detonation vibrations from the collapsing vibrations it at all possible.

It would be interesting to plot the seismic charts against a video of the collapse ensuring they are on the same timeline. If there are indications of vibrations with no visible signs of collapse that would be a clear indication of detonations.

quote:

You never see that in the records. What you do see is the signature a geophysicists would expect to see from a collapsing building, but certainly no indication of any sort of initial explosions.


Can you provide a seismic chart of exploding nano-thermite?

Posted by TheGasMan
Member since Oct 2014
3485 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

Can you provide a seismic chart of exploding nano-thermite?


No, but I can most certainly pick out an explosion that would be required to bring that building down.

quote:

Someone dealing with seismology on a regular basis

See, this is me.

I'm not having a long winded geophysics discussion with truthers in here explaining all of that.

But there are no explosions for WTC7 in the record.

This post was edited on 8/8/17 at 12:10 pm
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138920 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:10 pm to
quote:


No, but I can most certainly pick out an explosion that would be required to bring that building down.


"So you can't prove that thermite didn't bring the buildings down, so it's true that it did."

-truthers
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138920 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

But there are no explosions for WTC7 in the record.

"Why would there be? The government altered those seismographs."

-truthers
Posted by DaleGribblesMower
Member since Dec 2013
8168 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:16 pm to
So you're dumber than ever now huh?
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140573 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:22 pm to
quote:


No, but I can most certainly pick out an explosion that would be required to bring that building down.




It would be useful information to develop seismic charts of "exploding" nano-thermite. The signature may reveal a signature totally different from traditional explosive. Nano thermite may have a longer wavelength and smaller amplitude than traditional explosives.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138920 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:31 pm to
You don't even have any official specs on "nanothermite" either so stop with the nonsense.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140573 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:38 pm to
I'm baffled by your energy put forth to stop a discussion. It's like you have something to hide.

This post was edited on 8/8/17 at 12:54 pm
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138920 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 1:00 pm to
By saying he knows about as much as this mythical nanothermite as you do? It's the truth. You think that starting a fire with dynamite is logical when using a match is more effective.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140573 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 1:34 pm to
quote:

By saying he knows about as much as this mythical nanothermite as you do? It's the truth. You think that starting a fire with dynamite is logical when using a match is more effective.




What are you trying to say? I'm not following you.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138920 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 1:37 pm to
You said I'm trying to shut down a discussion because I'm calling bullshite. That's just false.
Posted by Placebeaux
Bobby Fischer Fan Club President
Member since Jun 2008
51852 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 2:03 pm to
quote:

Doctor André Rousseau, former researcher in geophysics at CNRS and specialist in sound waves, presents us with the results of his analysis of the seismic signals recorded on September 11, 2001 in New York and gives his point of view as a specialist on the question of the destruction of the three towers at the World Trade Center. André Rousseau, Docteur d'État, is a retired researcher at CNRS where he studied the relations between the characteristics of progressive mechanical waves and geology. He published numerous peer-reviewed articles on geophysics and participated in numerous conferences, including selection committees. In this article he puts forward evidence that the seismic waves recorded on September 11, 2001 in New York are the result of subterranean and subaerial explosions that were part of the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers and WTC7.


Just another kook scientist calling bullshite on the government
Posted by SwampBandit
Livonia, La
Member since Jun 2016
3824 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 2:16 pm to
Just like they knew it was Bin Laden 5 minutes after the first plane hit

I myself believe it was a government planned event. There are quite a few videos that bring up some good points that are actual news footage that makes you think.

All of the news channels almost seemed as if they were reading the same piece of paperwork word for word...

and what about TWC 7 that wasnt even hit by a plane and only had fires in a certain portion of the building, what in the world made it crumble like a perfectly executed demo.

Kinda like Bin Laden being killed and dropped at sea before anyone knew about it then all of the people in Seal Team 6 that took him out died in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan weeks later... It is a wishy washy subject and i honestly dont know what to believe but what does it matter what i think or anyone else and if it were the government there is nothing we can do about it
This post was edited on 8/8/17 at 2:20 pm
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
20322 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 2:18 pm to
quote:

Portion of Fig. 4 from Active Thermititic Material Discovered. The corner of a red-gray chip, with the gray and red layers labeled:


So this "supposedly" came from dust from the WTC. Right.
Posted by TheGasMan
Member since Oct 2014
3485 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 2:24 pm to
And Rousseau has been beat to death over that article in which he conveniently ignores several geophysical constraints.

Already said it once, I'm not getting into a lengthy geophysics talk here. Most of y'all probably can't read/understand a tenth of what he says in that paper. That always makes it seem official right?

Doesn't help that he has to publish that garbage in the "Journal for 9/11 studies". Hell, this paper is so groundbreaking he should be the keynote speaker at every AGU meeting since he published!

But no, maybe he's right. Underground explosions caused the buildings to collapse from the top
This post was edited on 8/8/17 at 2:26 pm
Posted by A1A
Space Coast
Member since Sep 2015
2448 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 2:24 pm to
508th downvote
Posted by Placebeaux
Bobby Fischer Fan Club President
Member since Jun 2008
51852 posts
Posted on 8/8/17 at 2:32 pm to
quote:

But no, maybe he's right. Underground explosions caused the buildings to collapse from the top


He didnt say that. He simply said that the data shows underground explosions that preceded collapse. Im sure you are more experienced in this field of study than Mr Rousseau so please shed some light on his analysis of the P and S wave readings.

quote:

The composition of the waves is revealing both in terms of the location of the source and the magnitude of the energy transmitted to the ground. The subterranean origin of the waves emitted when WTC1 collapsed is attested by the presence of the P and S volume waves along with the Rayleigh surface waves, which are present in all five explosions. The placement of the source of the four other explosions is subaerial, attested by the unique presence of Rayleigh waves. The aerial explosions visible on the videos of the upper floors of the Twin Towers do not produce seismic waves 34 km from the source.
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