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re: Should a 13 y.o. murderer be tried and sentenced under adult guidelines?
Posted on 3/11/16 at 12:38 pm to LSUTANGERINE
Posted on 3/11/16 at 12:38 pm to LSUTANGERINE
I agree with you, despite the wave of opposition you're getting.
Until we have a uniformly consistent way of diagnosing adulthood and the responsibilities that come with it, a blanket age should bet set where you are either tried as an adult or child. It isn't morally consistent to coddle a 13 year old as a victim due to inability to consent yet throw the book at one who does the worst of the worst.
Kid is still guilty of murder and should get a heavy sentence, but would ideally be scaled back from the adult punishment.
ETA: The only gray area to me is the underage sex between relative peers where one might be over a legal threshold, but they are clearly part of the same generational stratus.
Until we have a uniformly consistent way of diagnosing adulthood and the responsibilities that come with it, a blanket age should bet set where you are either tried as an adult or child. It isn't morally consistent to coddle a 13 year old as a victim due to inability to consent yet throw the book at one who does the worst of the worst.
Kid is still guilty of murder and should get a heavy sentence, but would ideally be scaled back from the adult punishment.
ETA: The only gray area to me is the underage sex between relative peers where one might be over a legal threshold, but they are clearly part of the same generational stratus.
This post was edited on 3/11/16 at 12:40 pm
2
Posted on 3/11/16 at 12:42 pm to LSUTANGERINE
Just getting here and making decisions based on OP. Not 3 pages of comments that I did not read.
The parents of the 13 yo murderer should be tried. The kid was either (a.) improperly raised or b. has mental problems that should have been recognized. If it were (b.) they could have gotten him help.
NOW trying someone at that age is a touchy subject with me because I don't think much of the randomly chosen ages for certain crimes. The human brain doesn't mature until age 26. Add to that the differing rates of maturity of each individual. Using these factors would be overly complicated.
So what would I do based on the court system of today? Try them using adult standards and then trust the court system to decide on punishment. One definite difference is death sentence would be off the table.
The case of the girl deserves it's own thread. Different kind of crime, and outcome. If it were MY daughter there would be a trial for a 68 yo man that murdered a 40 yo man. That being seriously said looking from the outside I would have little trouble with this one. A 40 yo man is long way past the fully brain matured age of 26. A 13 yo girl is far to immature at that age no matter how mature for her age she may be. The answer to "Both were capable enough to make their adult decisions, right?" is a definite and resounding HELL NO and he should be sentenced to the fullest extent of the law. Child Welfare Family Services should be called in as well to at least provide counseling to the girl.
The parents of the 13 yo murderer should be tried. The kid was either (a.) improperly raised or b. has mental problems that should have been recognized. If it were (b.) they could have gotten him help.
NOW trying someone at that age is a touchy subject with me because I don't think much of the randomly chosen ages for certain crimes. The human brain doesn't mature until age 26. Add to that the differing rates of maturity of each individual. Using these factors would be overly complicated.
So what would I do based on the court system of today? Try them using adult standards and then trust the court system to decide on punishment. One definite difference is death sentence would be off the table.
The case of the girl deserves it's own thread. Different kind of crime, and outcome. If it were MY daughter there would be a trial for a 68 yo man that murdered a 40 yo man. That being seriously said looking from the outside I would have little trouble with this one. A 40 yo man is long way past the fully brain matured age of 26. A 13 yo girl is far to immature at that age no matter how mature for her age she may be. The answer to "Both were capable enough to make their adult decisions, right?" is a definite and resounding HELL NO and he should be sentenced to the fullest extent of the law. Child Welfare Family Services should be called in as well to at least provide counseling to the girl.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 12:44 pm to Swoopin
quote:
It isn't morally consistent to coddle a 13 year old as a victim due to inability to consent yet throw the book at one who does the worst of the worst.
I respectfully disagree. Too much difference for even a country dumb 13 yo not to see.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 12:44 pm to Redbone
quote:
I don't think the argument is as bad as people are making it out to be. But, at different ages, different things feel right and wrong. You don't just all of a sudden understand all the repercussions of your decisions. At 13 you should know killing someone is wrong but you might not understand sexual emotions.
I just want to quote this for emphasis because it does cloud the issue, and I agree with its sentiment.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 12:49 pm to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
You are missing the bigger picture. It's about adult or non-adult responsibility.
It's actually more complicated than that.
1.) Does the 13 year old murderer truly understand the consequences of their actions?
2.) What if it's a 30 year old with the comprehension of a 13 year old.
3.) The sexual incident also has an element of coersion. Was the 13 year old murderer coerced into killing so a 40 year old would not be charged.
You need to be more specific and make sure your hypotheticals are parallel if you are wanting people to draw parallel conclusions.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:05 pm to LSUTANGERINE
Take away that the 40 yr old lied, still doesn't change the fact that a 13 yr old agreeing to have sex with an older person is the same as a 13 yr old deciding to commit murder
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:06 pm to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
So you won't answer the second part?
I'll answer it sure, but it's irrelevant.
If the 13 year old played a part in stealing the car then yes she should be charged.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:10 pm to RandySavage
quote:
If the 13 year old played a part in stealing the car then yes she should be charged.
as an adult?
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:15 pm to LSUTANGERINE
I do not think any charges should be filed against either one if you could make sure the 13 year-old murdered the 40 year-old guy. The girl should be spayed and confined to a nunnery.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:16 pm to LSUTANGERINE
im guessing you are questioning the mental capacity of certain individuals to make decisions
interesting question as not all situations require the same line of mental capacity
for instance the scenario you gave...Murder is a pretty universally understood evil, excluding outside forces of persuasion or mental disability, the perception on murder for any normal child at the age of 13 is that the act is wrong. I would venture to say that in this country that is a universal
Now in the instance of relationship, especially in your formative and pubescent teen years the lines of what is perceived as right and wrong by the child can become blurred.
so each scenario in a bubble is not totally comparable when it comes to mental capacity
interesting question as not all situations require the same line of mental capacity
for instance the scenario you gave...Murder is a pretty universally understood evil, excluding outside forces of persuasion or mental disability, the perception on murder for any normal child at the age of 13 is that the act is wrong. I would venture to say that in this country that is a universal
Now in the instance of relationship, especially in your formative and pubescent teen years the lines of what is perceived as right and wrong by the child can become blurred.
so each scenario in a bubble is not totally comparable when it comes to mental capacity
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:16 pm to LSUTANGERINE
This is nothing more than looking to "gotcha" people in your countless race related posts.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:18 pm to Hoops
How is this about race, other your lame attempt?
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:20 pm to LSUTANGERINE
Read what I wrote very slowly.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:27 pm to Swoopin
Exactly
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:31 pm to LSUTANGERINE
Ugh,I guess this second rate Strong Safety is going to make shitty threads everyday till the end of time.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:32 pm to LSUTANGERINE
20 years ago I say no. But in today's world yes. But it does depend on certain things. As far as the 13 year old sex thing. The 40 year old should go to jail whether it was rape or not.as mature as some 13 year olds are, most have no clue what it means to have sex.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:07 pm to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
If the 13 year old played a part in stealing the car then yes she should be charged.
as an adult?
The difference between "as a juvy" versus "as an adult" is sentencing, obviously.
If you steal a car as a 13 year old, you might get five years till you are 18. Similar to an adult sentence.
If you kill somebody as a 13 year old, -max time would be five years (released at 18), so less than five actually.
Big difference in crime being committed.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 4:25 pm to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
as an adult?
Yea sure. 13 year olds know full well that stealing a car is wrong.
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