- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Settle a drunken argument: Tyson vs Bruce Lee no holds barred KO match
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:42 pm to Freauxzen
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:42 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
1) Can a world-class 145 lb. MMA Fighter beat Tyson in a no holds barred match?
The answer would be yes. Take Jose Aldo. But tyson would also be free to street fight. Makes it a little more difficult than a straight up MMA guy versus strictly a boxer.
Still, Yes, take someone to the ground and it evens things out. I will say however, there is a massive strength disadvantage that the 145 pound guy would have to overcome.
This is an interesting question but yes, it could happen.
quote:
2) Can a world champion heavyweight boxer 220 lb., beat Bruce Lee in a match in his time?
Sure. The more modern day boxers with the better fitness and the higher rewards, sure. Easy.
quote:
3) Can a peak-conditioned 145 lb. fighter trained in multiple styles including wing chun, boxing, and wrestling beat a 220 lb. World Champion Heavyweight boxer?
This is where it gets a little more interesting.
The smaller guy would have to have a great takedown and ground game. If he was more of a stand up guy, I would honestly say no.
If you had someone world class in the ground game than that equalizes things quite a bit.
quote:
4) If EVERYTHING about Bruce Lee is true, can he beat Mike Tyson? Can even the myth of Bruce Lee live up to factual Tyson at all?
Obviously anything is possible. But the fact is that Lee didn't do a lot of ground stuff and submission stuff. His main fighting was standup.
And frankly there is no way the real life Lee could stand up to the mythical Lee. Just wouldn't happen.
I think Lee was a superbly trained athlete. I think he was a great fighter. Yes, he mixed up techniques and hated using anyone one form. You can say he was one of the earlier MMA fighters of his time. But honestly, while he was way ahead of the curve, he was way behind where current day world class MMA guys are at both in technique and fitness.
quote:
5) If EVERYTHING about Bruce is false, he was just a good athlete and marketer who could showcase some skills superficially, can he beat Mike Tyson in a no holds barred match? Free answer: No
Obviously everything about Lee is not false. The guy knew how to fight. The guy in reality could be seen as a pioneer to MMA combining many things from different arts that worked and not sticking with any pure art.
That is what MMA is. But he didn't do the ground training that it would take to beat a modern day MMA guy at his weight class.
I do not think even a near amazing Lee knowing what he did at the time was likely to beat tyson at his prime.
You have to understand, whatever you say about Lee, he was still a man. He was an extremely gifted athlete. He was likely even a world class level athlete. But he was still a man. A man with a very rudimentary knowledge of MMA. Against a 220 pound definite world class athlete.
It would take a mythical bruce lee to actually beat tyson in my opinion.
1
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:45 pm to PapiGogo
Lee's Jeet Kun Do is the grandfather of MMA styles, not typical Kung Fu.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:45 pm to Henry Jones Jr
Tyson would definitely touch him. And squish him like a bug
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:45 pm to PapiGogo
quote:
Mike Tyson actually competed against real men and dominated.
In boxing.
quote:
Hell, he unified the heavyweight titles
In boxing.
quote:
In his prime, he'd beat just about anyone (including Bruce Lee).
In boxing (maybe) - Joe Louis and Ali would have given him fits, so would Dempsey, Marciano and Frazier - perhaps he beats all those guys in their prime, but none of those cats were pushovers, either.
quote:
I'd put just about any elite MMA fighter up against either of them.
In an MMA competition, no question (there are still rules, although I admit, it's getting closer to IRL fighting, for sure).
quote:
Neither boxing or "Kung Fu" are real world applicable.
Correct, yet both Tyson and Lee were accomplished street fighters who also trained in one or more disciplines - so there's that - that is one of the reasons this is an intriguing discussion.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:47 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Again, you just said that MMA fighters don't train or really try to take out knees/legs, so stop using that as your example.
MMA fighters absolutely try to take out legs. Have you ever heard of Muay Thai?
However the likelihood of breaking a leg is very low. And I have seen more guys doing the kicking break their legs than the receiver of said kick.
quote:
I am pretty damn confident that if Lee got a good solid kick into either the side or front of a knee, he would break it. If you disagree, that is fine but your argument to disagree on it doesn't really work.
How many legs get broken in MMA fights? It is rare. The far more likely thing to do is bruise up their leg so they slow down and have difficulty moving.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:47 pm to Hulkklogan
quote:Pankration a bit ahead of Bruce Lee. But I understand the point.
Lee's Jeet Kun Do is the grandfather of MMA styles
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:47 pm to boom roasted
quote:
Almost never.
What type of kick are they using then?
quote:
Wear down the lead leg. Slow the fighter. Set up a high kick.
So, they aren't kicking a leg to take it out? So, then this isn't proof on an ability to take out a knee?
quote:
Possible, but the stars would have to align. Tyson would have to have his leg in a straight and locked position.
So, even though their are attacks designed at taking out knees, the stars have to align for such an attack to do anything?
quote:
I'm saying that of all the leg kicks in MMA, and all the shins connecting with knees, I've never seen someone bust a knee with a kick. I take issue with you making it sound so easy.
Again. You are basing your knowledge that taking a knee out can't happen based off of watching people who are trained to defend against leg attacks, taking attacks that aren't designed to take out their knee, yes because it doesn't happen, is impossible?
i've never seen a man snap another's neck in a fight, but I know it is possible.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:52 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:A chopping kick. Like cutting down a tree.
What type of kick are they using then?
quote:I don't follow.
So, they aren't kicking a leg to take it out? So, then this isn't proof on an ability to take out a knee?
quote:Still don't follow.
So, even though their are attacks designed at taking out knees, the stars have to align for such an attack to do anything?
quote:I'm just saying. After all the years of watching MMA and watching legs, and, coincidentally, knees, get kicked over and over again, and not seeing one single knee "break" like you're saying Lee would do to Tyson, I say it's extremely, extremely, extremely unlikely that Lee would succeed with this simple "knee break" kick.
Again. You are basing your knowledge that taking a knee out can't happen based off of watching people who are trained to defend against leg attacks, taking attacks that aren't designed to take out their knee, yes because it doesn't happen, is impossible?
quote:Perfect analogy.
i've never seen a man snap another's neck in a fight, but I know it is possible.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:56 pm to thetempleowl
quote:
MMA fighters absolutely try to take out legs. Have you ever heard of Muay Thai?
Yes, MT guys kick the upper leg area right above the knee cap which is the majority of leg kicks seen in MMA. However, you can demolish the knee with a straight heel directly to the knee cap, but this would be a self defense move only since you are basically going to render the person a cripple after that. Not sure if that is the
point here.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:59 pm to boom roasted
quote:
What type of kick are they using then?
A chopping kick. Like cutting down a tree.
quote:
So, they aren't kicking a leg to take it out? So, then this isn't proof on an ability to take out a knee?
I don't follow.
quote:
So, even though their are attacks designed at taking out knees, the stars have to align for such an attack to do anything?
Still don't follow.
You are basing an inability to do something based off of it not happening because it isn't really being attempted. As you said, they are trying to wear down the entire leg and what not. Which led to my analogy you agreed with. Judging the ability of somebody to snap another's neck in a fight based off it not happening in MMA fights is just as (no definitely more) silly than saying Lee wouldn't be able to snap somebody's knee. However, it is basically the argument you are making.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 3:02 pm to thetempleowl
quote:
The answer would be yes. Take Jose Aldo. But tyson would also be free to street fight. Makes it a little more difficult than a straight up MMA guy versus strictly a boxer.
Still, Yes, take someone to the ground and it evens things out. I will say however, there is a massive strength disadvantage that the 145 pound guy would have to overcome.
This is an interesting question but yes, it could happen.
Agree.
Exactly. Tyson probably lacks technique and gets beat there. I'm not sure even a ground game would be necessary, just a knowledge of most damaging grapples.
Even then in a no holds bar match, you don't go for the submission, you go for the maim, so strength matters less if someone can get you in a place to destroy your eyes.
quote:
Sure. The more modern day boxers with the better fitness and the higher rewards, sure. Easy.
I was thinking of at his time. In a no holds-barred match, it's a push.
quote:
This is where it gets a little more interesting.
The smaller guy would have to have a great takedown and ground game. If he was more of a stand up guy, I would honestly say no.
If you had someone world class in the ground game than that equalizes things quite a bit.
Agreed.
quote:
Obviously anything is possible. But the fact is that Lee didn't do a lot of ground stuff and submission stuff. His main fighting was standup.
And frankly there is no way the real life Lee could stand up to the mythical Lee. Just wouldn't happen.
I think Lee was a superbly trained athlete. I think he was a great fighter. Yes, he mixed up techniques and hated using anyone one form. You can say he was one of the earlier MMA fighters of his time. But honestly, while he was way ahead of the curve, he was way behind where current day world class MMA guys are at both in technique and fitness.
But Lee studied both BJJ and wrestling extensively. So if 1) and even a question on 3) then this answer must be yes. Which is really all we have to get to. If Lee is great, then yes, he could take down Tyson. Of course it would be hard, but it's doable.
And if you agree that this fight comes down to something dirty, cheap, and debilitating more than some exchange of blows, then the outcome is even more random. But no one crushes the other.
quote:
That is what MMA is. But he didn't do the ground training that it would take to beat a modern day MMA guy at his weight class.
In an MMA match, probably not. In a no holds-barred, maybe maybe not. Just like Tyson though, MMA fighters are a different breed on both accounts. They can take out Lee, but they can also take out Tyson.
quote:
I do not think even a near amazing Lee knowing what he did at the time was likely to beat tyson at his prime.
You have to understand, whatever you say about Lee, he was still a man. He was an extremely gifted athlete. He was likely even a world class level athlete. But he was still a man. A man with a very rudimentary knowledge of MMA. Against a 220 pound definite world class athlete.
It would take a mythical bruce lee to actually beat tyson in my opinion.
Which is what Lee supporters usually run off of. So there's no proof, correct. I think the anti-Lee overplay the Myths actually without any proof of the opposite.
Still...a kick in the junk.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 3:02 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
Lee would quickly unleash a poison strike or incapacitate one of Tyson's legs...Tyson would drop and it would be over!
Posted on 2/14/14 at 3:02 pm to boom roasted
quote:
extremely, extremely unlikely that Lee would succeed with this simple "knee break" kick.
I've also never said it was simple.
Lets just be honest here though, we are all speaking out of our arse on a completely hypothetical idea of how we see the fight going. You've also never seen Mike Tyson land a punch on somebody as quick as Bruce Lee. Why are you confident he would be able to?
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 3:05 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 3:02 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:I'm saying that because it hasn't happened in all the years I've been watching MMA and all the leg kicks that have slammed into knees, that it is extremely unlikely. You're taking the absence of such injuries to mean that it's possible because they don't actively try to kick the knee, although the shin inevitably meets the knee on frequent occasion. I'm saying the absence of such injuries means that it's extremely difficult and extremely unlikely to accomplish such a task.
You are basing an inability to do something based off of it not happening because it isn't really being attempted. As you said, they are trying to wear down the entire leg and what not. Which led to my analogy you agreed with. Judging the ability of somebody to snap another's neck in a fight based off it not happening in MMA fights is just as (no definitely more) silly than saying Lee wouldn't be able to snap somebody's knee.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 3:03 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Still...a kick in the junk.
Still....best argument so far
Posted on 2/14/14 at 3:04 pm to boom roasted
quote:
I'm saying that because it hasn't happened in all the years I've been watching MMA and all the leg kicks that have slammed into knees, that it is extremely unlikely. You're taking the absence of such injuries to mean that it's possible because they don't actively try to kick the knee, although the shin inevitably meets the knee on frequent occasion. I'm saying the absence of such injuries means that it's extremely difficult and extremely unlikely to accomplish such a task.
And what if Lee uses a different technique to take out a knee than this chopping kick? Is it more or less likely to be effective against someone not adept at defending leg attacks?
Posted on 2/14/14 at 3:04 pm to PapiGogo
quote:
Have you ever seen an MMA fighter specialize in Kung Fu?
I think Bruce Lee specialized in more that just Kung Fu.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 3:05 pm to danman6336
Tyson. Lee may get a few punches in that Tyson would just eat up. I like Lee and all, but gotta give this one to the champ.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 3:05 pm to MWP
quote:
However, you can demolish the knee with a straight heel directly to the knee cap, but this would be a self defense move only since you are basically going to render the person a cripple after that. Not sure if that is the
point here.
But that is the point. This fight would and should come down to that very fact. Who's gets that kind of blow first?
People thinking Lee is going to stand there while Tyson wails away. Not happening. On the other hand, Lee is not going to punch Tyson into submission. Not happening.
Something dirty ends this and both are probably skilled enough to land something dirty. But again, that's not a "cool," fight that people want to see.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 3:06 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:Well you kept bringing it up time after time as if it were a common occurrence. "What if Lee kicked Tyson in the knee?"
I've also never said it was simple.
quote:
Lets just be honest here though, we are all speaking out of our arse on a completely hypothetical idea of how we see the fight going.
Don't disagree with that.quote:There's never been a reason for Mike Tyson to punch someone of Bruce Lee's size and speed. The counterargument is that you've never seen Bruce Lee strike anybody in combat.
You've also never seen Mike Tyson land a punch on somebody as quick as Bruce Lee.
quote:I'd put my hard-earned dollars on Tyson.
What are you confident he would be able to?
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 3:08 pm
Page 34 of 62
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News