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Message
Scientists document evolution of new bird species
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:00 pm
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:00 pm
LINK
quote:
For the first time, scientists have been able to observe something amazing: the evolution of a completely new species, in the wild, in real-time. And it took just two generations.
Now, genomic sequencing and the analysis of physical characteristics have confirmed the new species of Darwin's finch, endemic to a small island called Daphne Major in the Galápagos. Its discoverers have nicknamed it Big Bird.
There are at least 15 species of Darwin's finches, so named because their diversity helped famed naturalist Charles Darwin figure out his theory of evolution by natural selection - that is, mutations can help species become better adapted to their environment, and be passed down to subsequent generations.
It's two of these species that came together in what is called species hybridisation to create an entirely new one.
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Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:07 pm to Jim Rockford
Can they breed with other finches?
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:07 pm to Jim Rockford
The Galapagos Islands seem to be an ideal crucible for observing evolution. 
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:17 pm to SidewalkDawg
quote:
Can they breed with other finches?
They probably could, but they are saying the new lineage is reproductively isolated based on their song.
"New" species because they are only breeding with each other and accessing previously unused resources.
The scientific article is in the journal Science, so it has to be solid research to make the cut there.
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:18 pm to SidewalkDawg
quote:
Can they breed with other finches?
quote:
It's two of these species that came together in what is called species hybridisation to create an entirely new one.
They can. In the Galapagos the varying species of finches have not been separated long enough for inter-species mixing to have disappeared.
This does not mean that they readily interbreed, however. Habituation of that part of the environment that feeds them promotes isolation of the finch species in the Galapagos Islands.
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:24 pm to Jim Rockford
So two different types of Finches breeded and the result was a new breed of finch?
How exactly is that anything more impressive then say when someone breeds a poodle with a Lab to make a new breed of dog we know as the Labradoodle?
How exactly is that anything more impressive then say when someone breeds a poodle with a Lab to make a new breed of dog we know as the Labradoodle?
This post was edited on 11/27/17 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:26 pm to Darth_Vader
Or when a whi.......
Nevermind
Nevermind
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:26 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
So two different types of Finches breeded and the result was a new breed of finch?
How exactly is that anything more impressive then say when someone breeds a poodle with a Lab to make a new breed of dog we know as the Labradoodle?
Exactly. If Noah had to build his ark today, he would only have to bring a male a female of the finches in the Galapagos. He wouldn't have to bring a male and female of this new "species".
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:27 pm to Jim Rockford
I know darwinism exists because a new species called sjw has been identified and is getting stronger day by day
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:29 pm to Jim Rockford
Evolution, about as made up as going to the moon....
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:30 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
xactly. If Noah had to build his ark today, he would only have to bring a male a female of the finches in the Galapagos. He wouldn't have to bring a male and female of this new "species".
Haha. But my question still stands. How exactly is this some ground breaking discovery different than breeding dogs to get a new breed like the example of the Labradoddle I gave?
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:43 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
How exactly is this some ground breaking discovery different than breeding dogs to get a new breed like the example of the Labradoddle I gave?
Dogs are still technically wolves (Canis lupus). Mating one bloodline (breed) to another is no big deal because they are still the same species. They are not reproductively isolated from one another by behavior, geography/habitat, or resource use. The designer mutt is being artificially selected for.
In the case of these finches, it is one relatively new species (in geological time) mating with another relatively new species. Species that were previously separated by geography (male of the "invader" species came from an island over 100km away, male's species not previously present on this island), and behavior (invader male mated with two females of resident species despite having a different song (the thing that usually attracts mates in birds)). This mating produced viable offspring, not sterile "mules."
Edit: I say "relatively new species" as I am thinking the Galapagos radiations are relatively new in the grand scheme of things, but I could be very wrong about how long the birds have been there.
This post was edited on 11/27/17 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:46 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
How exactly is this some ground breaking discovery different than breeding dogs to get a new breed like the example of the Labradoddle I gave?
Because a domestic dog is still a domestic dog.
Just because you created a different breed, doesn't mean it's a different species. Domestic dogs, at their core, are all the same genetically. It's the same as a subspecies essentially. No breed differs enough from the rest to call them something completely different, but they are just different enough that they are seperate varieties.
This finch, apparently, does not have similar genetics to the two parent species. Thus, it is a seperate species.
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:48 pm to Jim Rockford
Darwins studies on finch bill size in relation to drought and seed types are fascinating
Posted on 11/27/17 at 12:55 pm to Cowboyfan89
Still not buying it. Breeding two different types of Finch in no different than breeding two different types of dogs, irregardless if the breeding is done in the wild or in a breeder's kennel. In both instances you'll get something of a blend of two types of one animal to get a hybrid of those types. Calling one a "breed" and another a "species" doesn't change it either. It's the same thing. A poodle has different genes from a lab but share enough Genese that both are similar enough to produce a viable offspring. Same thing with these finches. Yes they're at least different enough to be different types of finch. But they're still both Finches. And when they breed they make a hybrid of the two types of finch. It's the same exact thing when two breeds of dogs do it.
Posted on 11/27/17 at 1:01 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
How exactly is that anything more impressive then say when someone breeds a poodle with a Lab to make a new breed of dog we know as the Labradoodle?
I have no idea, but it probably has something to do with this statement:
quote:
Now, genomic sequencing and the analysis of physical characteristics have confirmed the new species of Darwin's finch,
Posted on 11/27/17 at 1:05 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
How exactly is that anything more impressive then say when someone breeds a poodle with a Lab to make a new breed of dog we know as the Labradoodle?
One happens because that particular animal is more suited to survive in the wild and advance as a species. The other happens because your wife wants a little fluffy status symbol.
Posted on 11/27/17 at 1:06 pm to Methuselah
quote:
I have no idea, but it probably has something to do with this statement:
quote:
Now, genomic sequencing and the analysis of physical characteristics have confirmed the new species of Darwin's finch,
Again, the "new" species of finch has different genes than its parents. I get that. But breeding two different breeds of dogs produces offspring that likewise has different genes. Going back to my labradoodle example. A labradoodle will have different genes than a poodle due to the fact it's a mix of both poodle and lab.
Posted on 11/27/17 at 1:08 pm to Tiger in NY
quote:
One happens because that particular animal is more suited to survive in the wild and advance as a species. The other happens because your wife wants a little fluffy status symbol.
The "why" of the coupling of two different types of an animal does not matter when it comes to the question I raised.
Posted on 11/27/17 at 1:08 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
irregardless
Not a word.
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