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re: Question for white collar baws
Posted on 10/2/25 at 4:14 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
Posted on 10/2/25 at 4:14 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
“Most” (or really close) are making that with benefits ie cost of employment
The chargeable rate includes things like overhead, heating, electrical, internet software etc...
Total employee compensation is only part of the chargeable rate.
I agree most engineers cost 100 an hour, but they are not compensated at 100 an hour, which is around 200k a year.
quote:
Which means you have to bill them at at least $175 hour in order for you to make a dime as the owner off of their labor once you factor in your direct nonlabor costs.
This I
1
Posted on 10/2/25 at 4:15 pm to Narax
quote:
I agree most engineers cost 100 an hour, but they are not compensated at 100 an hour, which is around 200k a year.
Neither one of this said this dumbass
Posted on 10/2/25 at 4:21 pm to lsu777
quote:
i didnt say they were making 100 an hour, i said when you factor in benefits most are close to that.
Cost of employment is not the same as benefits.
What are you including as benefits, specifically and what % of overall salary are you counting for each.
Posted on 10/2/25 at 4:23 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Neither one of this said this dumbass
Sigh...
quote:
I know, I used to help hire them only recently not doing that anymore.
and most are making that as salary plus benefits and in the industrial world were you are looking at total matches of 401k in the 10-15% range, plus bonus, plus awesome insurance...yea they are making 80-100 an hour right off the bat.
Posted on 10/2/25 at 4:24 pm to Narax
quote:
What are you including as benefits, specifically and what % of overall salary are you counting for each.
Health insurance, PTO, 401k match, fringe benefits etc. A simple calculation is to double salary, which puts your median engineer just under $200k cost of employment.
He’s making a very direct comparison for the OT and he’s right, you seemingly just aren’t smart enough to understand it
This post was edited on 10/2/25 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 10/2/25 at 4:31 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
A simple calculation is to double salary,
Do the math...
The real math.
quote:
and he’s right, you seemingly just aren’t smart enough to understand it
So first he didnt say it and now he's right?
Posted on 10/2/25 at 4:33 pm to Narax
quote:
Do the math... The real math.
I don’t have every single company’s benefits information. It’s just a standard calculation of the average cost of employment
Posted on 10/2/25 at 5:02 pm to Prodigal Son
quote:
I only disagree with the idea that that’s who I’m looking for. I’m not. I’m looking for ways to improve the trade to attract the best. I want less electricians, at much higher pay, because they can do the work of what we currently pay for two electricians. Most people don’t see what’s happening to the trades. They think you can just keep putting retards and drug addicts in, and a few smart guys will figure out how to make it work. The brainpower is leaving. Whereas 30 years ago, electricians grew on trees- today , no one wants to take up that mantle. I want to help to fix that.
About 16 years ago, a certain Presidential administration (not naming names as I’m NOT political) decided “every student deserved to go to college.” At that point, the funding to the High School Vo-Tech schools diminished drastically. It has taken that long to get the funding back AND convince some of the brighter students that that route is a much better option for long term employment. I have a close family member who has been teaching for over 30 years who imparted most of this information to me. Now, the funding is there, but the students aren’t.
Kudos to you for the job fair. She tells me they need a ton more of them, every year to break through to most of the brighter students who will waste money at a college and drop out. It’s gonna take time.
Overall I agree with you. I was in High School 45 years ago. Those guys in the Vo-Tech area were bright fellas. Some had a few “learning disabilities” or ADHD or whatever you want to call it, but they were SMART dudes. I seem to also remember, they were revered the same way the smart kids were. They attended competitions and received awards when they won and then were recognized at the school’s award banquets with all the others. I don’t think any of that happens any more.
Posted on 10/2/25 at 5:05 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
I don’t have every single company’s benefits information
Yea...
quote:
It’s just a standard calculation of the average cost of employment
OK so are you saying only benefits are part of total cost?
You arent being precise what you are measuring.
Posted on 10/2/25 at 5:09 pm to Narax
quote:
OK so are you saying only benefits are part of total cost?
No
quote:
You arent being precise what you are measuring.
Well neither are you if that’s the criteria
Posted on 10/2/25 at 5:09 pm to Prodigal Son
I would had loved to work for you back when I was blue collar.
Posted on 10/2/25 at 5:40 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Well neither are you if that’s the criteria
Would you like me to explain rate vs total employee cost vs total employee compensation?
Posted on 10/2/25 at 5:41 pm to Narax
quote:
Would you like me to explain rate vs total employee cost vs total employee compensation?
You’re all over the place
Posted on 10/2/25 at 6:35 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
You’re all over the place
Thank you for attempting to follow along.
But for others who may consider this valuable (the OP already knows this obviously)
The 100 an hour was completely wrong, non salary compensation rarely is more than 40%, and that is considered generous.
To note
Scaling Costs
10% - 401k Match
10% - 5 weeks of vacation/sick time out of 52 weeks
Variable Costs
17% - Employers pay an average of $7,034 for individual coverage and $17,393 for family coverage
37% extra costs due to employee compensation.
Feel free to add in core compensation costs besides these.
To note, most engineers are classified as white collar salaried and do not get Overtime pay.
Posted on 10/3/25 at 8:33 am to Narax
I’m not gonna argue with you but there are other things you are leaving off and your numbers are way off, example in my case company pays over 35k for my health/dental/eye insurance. Not to mention the 410k is 1.5 times what you put.
Again for many engineers it’s more like 80-90% of salary and there are plenty of engineers in the plants that make over 200k with 10 years experience. Plenty.
Again for many engineers it’s more like 80-90% of salary and there are plenty of engineers in the plants that make over 200k with 10 years experience. Plenty.
Posted on 10/3/25 at 8:59 am to lsu777
quote:
the 410k is 1.5 times what you put.
Damn. I thought I was doing good with 10%
Posted on 10/3/25 at 9:02 am to Prodigal Son
quote:
What would it take for you to take a blue collar job? I’m not talking about digging ditches (solely- but let’s say it’s part of the job description). I mean electrician, plumber, HVAC, etc. I don’t expect doctors, lawyers and engineers to seriously consider this (but some might).
I'd need to go back 25 years. Life is too short to do well in multiple careers for most of us.
quote:
The reason I ask, is because I’m tired of dealing with retards and drug addicts. I want to know what it would take to get more people of at least average intelligence to consider sweating it out with me vs sitting in an air conditioned office.
I think our pipeline to those lucrative blue collar careers are not well developed. Our high schools are structured to be prep schools. There's not enough emphasis on trades kills like electrical work, basic welding, etc.
It might take some kind of union or something to work with high schools and trade schools. And even then (at least around here) - they'd be competing with a lot of massive companies for that labor.
This post was edited on 10/3/25 at 9:05 am
Posted on 10/3/25 at 9:48 am to Yeti_Chaser
quote:
Damn. I thought I was doing good with 10%
you are, but the plants are having to be extra competitive.
For example when Sasol kept taking operators from Westlake chemical, westlake started the following for 401k, $ for $ match up to 4% and everyone must put in 4% automatic....if you stay the whole year on top of your normal bonus you get another 8% directly into your 401k as a retirement bonus
Alot of the plants are around 8% match on 401k, some up to 10 plus another 5-7.5% in pension.
to get people in the plants, they have to overpay obviously. but 10% match is fricking great. my point was he is just assuming he knows everything when he doesnt and some of his numbers are low.
Posted on 10/3/25 at 9:57 am to Prodigal Son
People always talk about air conditioning in these threads. Man, I do not give two shits about air conditioning. It's nice to feel a blast of cold air after your work is done, but this notion that we'd all just collapsed if we weren't perpetually mollycoddled at 72 degrees is just bogus IMO. People made due for millenia. I get sick of it after a while and go run around in the heat anyway.
Posted on 10/3/25 at 10:07 am to Porpus
quote:
72 degrees is just bogus IMO. People made due for millenia. I get sick of it after a while and go run around in the heat anyway.
tell you what, Jungle Jim, let me disconnect the AC to your home for the summer and we'll revisit your two shits given for AC. Its not that people can't survive without it, its the question of why would anyone want to?
I've worked in plenty of heat (and still do when necessary) but climate controlled is better than sweating your arse off outside or in an attic pulling copper wire.
quote:
People made due for millenia.
people made due without antibiotics for millennia as well. They also died a lot younger.
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