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re: Popeyes Sandwich Strikes a Chord for African-Americans
Posted on 11/6/19 at 9:54 am to crazy4lsu
Posted on 11/6/19 at 9:54 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
The Scottish recipe also called for lard rather than oil.
You realize that lard turns in to oil when heated, right?
The west Africans weren’t bringing over jugs of cooking oil.
Yes, west African spices were used, but if you are making a dish in the way you have developed and I come in and throw a handful of spice that grows in your backyard, does that mean you invented the dish?
1
Posted on 11/6/19 at 9:54 am to Centinel
quote:
That's....fried chicken.
Yes, but modern recipes involve paprika and ginger, as well as frying in oil, which have West African roots, as that is how chicken friend in palm oil was cooked. I can find my sources, because there are many, but the difference between lard and a vegetable oil is one of the reasons food historians talk about the West African influence of the modern fried chicken recipe.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 9:56 am to fr33manator
quote:
Yes, west African spices were used, but if you are making a dish in the way you have developed and I come in and throw a handful of spice that grows in your backyard, does that mean you invented the dish?
So we've already established that West Africans have had their own method of cooking using particular spices. Those spices remain in the recipe, while the other method doesn't seem to be made anymore. And in your conclusion, this is a Scottish invention only? That's not a point that any food historian would concede.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 9:58 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Yes, but modern recipes involve paprika and ginger, as well as frying in oil, which have West African roots, as that is how chicken friend in palm oil was cooked. I can find my sources, because there are many, but the difference between lard and a vegetable oil is one of the reasons food historians talk about the West African influence of the modern fried chicken recipe.
But "modern" fried chicken recipes call for lard, lard being far more available up until the 20th century. You didn't see the widespread use of oil to fry chicken (or anything really) until fairly recently.
And now at this point the quibble is just specific spices used, which is a rather silly point to argue unless your argument is "african americans created fried chicken that specifically used spices x,y, and z in addition to spices previously used by other cultures."
Posted on 11/6/19 at 9:59 am to fr33manator
quote:
But we rely upon evidence for proof. Recipes,
Mentions in literature, etc.
I know. But for something as basic as frying a chicken it seems likely many people across human history were doing it without writing it down. Like the wheel or the bow and arrow, everyone had these things.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:00 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Those spices remain in the recipe
Which recipe? Because I can find all kinds of fried chicken recipes that use all kinds of spices.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:02 am to DavidTheGnome
Talk about brain-washed.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:03 am to biglego
quote:
Like the wheel or the bow and arrow, everyone had these things
You...may want to sit down for this
Sub-Saharan Africa never invented the wheel
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:04 am to Centinel
quote:
And now at this point the quibble is just specific spices used
You mean spices which remain in a recipe, spices which the Scots had no access too? That's a quibble to you?
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:04 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
You mean spices which remain in a recipe
Again, which recipe? Which spices specifically?
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:08 am to Centinel
quote:
Which recipe? Because I can find all kinds of fried chicken recipes that use all kinds of spices.
I was going by approximations of fast-food recipes, since it would be impossible for me to get first-person sources (in this case, the recipes themselves). I can look in a couple of encyclopedias I have which are good sources for this stuff too, but unless you have an objection, I was just going to go by these approximations.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:08 am to Winston Cup
quote:Yea, that entire quote was the Twitter winner during the 1st go round of the Popeye's chicken sandwich.
I seen the Lucille’s one, it’s common repost, and the article left out the best part it really says something like
“By some old black woman named Lucille who doesn’t give a frick about your cholesterol because it’s in God’s hands”
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:08 am to crazy4lsu
You posted verified historical evidence of the scotch recipe.
Why don’t you post evidence of the ancient African recipe?
Why don’t you post evidence of the ancient African recipe?
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:10 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
recipes, since it would be impossible for me to get first-person sources (in this case, the recipes themselves)
But a cursory search provided the scots recipe
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:11 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
I was going by approximations of fast-food recipes
I think that's a rather narrow lens to view modern fried chicken, don't you think?
Listen, I'm not saying west african slaves didn't contribute to modern fried chicken...because that would be rather stupid to do so.
However the argument presented in this thread that west african slave influence is what made modern friend chicken what it is today (and further that they "own" friend chicken) is simply not true. The techniques in total all existed prior to their influence. The only thing that changed was certain spices for *some* recipes.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:12 am to Centinel
quote:
Again, which recipe?
The traditional West African recipe, from Ghana to Nigeria, calls for a chicken that can be either poached, steamed, or cooked raw, seasoned with paprika, ginger, cloves, pepper, and herbs. Those are generally the ingredients that resist specific local variations.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:14 am to fr33manator
quote:
But a cursory search provided the scots recipe
Well modern fast food chicken recipes are, to my knowledge, proprietary, whereas many old cookbooks are not. Hence why I can't access the first-person sources, though I would if I could. I could easily delineate the history of the introduction of ingredients and cooking techniques if I had the time too.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:15 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
The traditional West African recipe, from Ghana to Nigeria, calls for a chicken that can be either poached, steamed, or cooked raw, seasoned with paprika, ginger, cloves, pepper, and herbs. Those are generally the ingredients that resist specific local variations.
clovers, pepper, and herbs all exist in fried chicken recipes prior to the west african slave influence. And that's just the ones I know of. Paprika and ginger were also available, and used, at that time in Europe (specifically the british isles) as well.
This post was edited on 11/6/19 at 10:16 am
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:17 am to Centinel
quote:
However the argument presented in this thread that west african slave influence is what made modern friend chicken what it is today (and further that they "own" friend chicken) is simply not true. The techniques in total all existed prior to their influence. The only thing that changed was certain spices for *some* recipes.
Saying the Scots solely invented the fried chicken recipe is inaccurate too, which is why I joined in. There isn't a food historian who denies that the modern recipe is an amalgam of the Scottish and West African version, like I've said. To what degree the modern recipe is influenced by what version is still up for some debate, and functionally, because of milling techniques (which were changed significantly in the 19th century), those antecedent versions were using types of flour which no one, neither the Scots or the West Africans, can possibly use anymore.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:18 am to crazy4lsu
Was wheat for flour even native to sub-Saharan Africa?
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