re: Poll - If a person has a gun, when do you shoot them?

C When they reach for the gun.

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You know how I've gone 31 years without getting shot by police? I'm not a fricking moron when confronted by police officers.

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Do a web search for deaf and physically handicapped people that have been shot or beaten by cops for not complying with police commands, the number is unbelievable, the police need better training.

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Lately evidence has shown us the answer is

I. Police pull with the intention to use deadly force as soon as possible.

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You are a fricking moron.

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You have a gun on you and are confronted by the police. They know you have the gun. At what point should the police be allowed to shoot?

A. As soon as you fail to comply with their verbal commands?

B. When you resist their attempts to take you into custody?

C. When you reach towards the gun?

D. When you establish a grip on the gun?

E. When you start the draw?

F. When the gun clears the pocket/waistband/holster?

G. When the gun is pointed at the officer?

H. When you fire the first shot at the officer?

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A. Generally no. Exception example, the person has been an active shooter but has stopped. Unknown why the person stopped. A reasonable officer should not be taking the chance after a verbal command to drop that weapon and they get no compliance. There had better be some deliberate surrender actions on the part of the offender. See Colorado Theater shooter.

B. Getting dependent on several factors here. #1 taking down an armed suspect alone is STUPID because an officer has no cover. It is reasonable to have a contact officer and a cover officer when an actively resisting suspect is unarmed. Another thing to consider is the surroundings. What is around? Who is around? If that gun fires in the scuffle intentional or not the round(s) is/are going somewhere.

C. This the where the answer changes to generally yes.

Another perspective to keep in mind is that suspect in this scenario introduced a deadly force option. If that weapon is concealed and there is nothing else going on, why do the police know he is armed? A reasonable officer cannot disarm someone during a consensual contact. If a reasonable officer has reasonable suspicion to detain you, it is justified for them to pat you down for weapons and disarm you during the contact. If you actively resist at this point the chances for force being escalated go up for both the suspect and the officer. There is always a weapon on every call an officer responds to because they bring it. If a physical fight starts, that gun belongs to whoever gets their hands on it first. If there are two guns the chances for force escalation are multiplied. Another thought, in this scenario, the officer knows the person has a gun. It is not stated if they know where the gun is on the suspect's person. No cookie cutter set rules on the street. Hell, there are set rules in court and even those get argued.

C

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C. When you reach towards the gun? And the LEO has instructed you to keep you hands clear of it

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Yours or theirs. Any later and it's too late.

I will also add, Anytime someone fighting with LEO gains and advantage, (i.e. any potentially lethal weapon produced or anytime someone fighting with LEO gains physical position. (Think Trayvon Martin on top of Zimmerman banginf his head on the concrete)
That's from a legal standpoint.

Personally, the minute you decide to fight with LEO's all bets are off. If you die, it's your own fault.

So is that B. or C. ?

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Do a web search for deaf and physically handicapped people that have been shot or beaten by cops for not complying with police commands,

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No. It's a waste of time because Sterling was not blind or deaf.

He was a known felon that had been reported to police as having a gun and threatening people outside the store.

THe likely scenario was.

LEO - "Step over here and place your hands where we can see them"

AS - "Why yall Fing with me, I ain't did nothing"

LEO - "Were responding to a call of a person with a weapon, do you have any weapons on you?"

AS - "Man I ain't doing nothing but selling CD's man."

LEO - "Place your hand hand on your head so we can search you for our own protection."

AS - "Man I ain't placing nothing you don't need to put your hand on me I ain't did nothing."

Scuffle ensues, and officers attempt to control suspects ability to access weapon and likely struggle to secure their own from being used against them.

As Sterling continues to fight a taser is deployed and is in effective.

The fight continues and the threat Mr Sterling presents is neutralized.

But it all goes back to the same thing. Comply with the police. Sterling was looking at a parole violation for the weapon and likely more time in prison. Instead he chose to fight and lost.

Sad but true.

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D. When you establish a grip on the gun?

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IF...nothing else precedes it. Example, I tell the officer I am removing my gun and he/she knows and understands.

This is why some women, women like you, don't get paid as much as men. You live in a fantasy world.