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re: Philosophical Question: Ship of Theseus
Posted on 4/18/21 at 2:31 pm to UndercoverBryologist
Posted on 4/18/21 at 2:31 pm to UndercoverBryologist
This question involves the three separate categories of essence, being, and meaning. Completely depends where you weigh your materialism (or physicalism according to contemporary philosophy) and immaterialism (“mind” or psychological imputation).
Materially the ship no longer exists corresponding to its sum of all parts, whereas the observer of the ship through time projects the meaning of the ship. The essence of the ship ceases to exist (“being” assumes an animate object) but the meaning of the ship exists. Kant makes this distinction based on the observer (he builds off Plato). Kant’s contemporary, Johann Georg Hamann, subverts Kant’s foundation of revelation and rightfully so.
Personally, I’m a big fan of Herman Bavink’s philosophy of revelation and worldview.
Materially the ship no longer exists corresponding to its sum of all parts, whereas the observer of the ship through time projects the meaning of the ship. The essence of the ship ceases to exist (“being” assumes an animate object) but the meaning of the ship exists. Kant makes this distinction based on the observer (he builds off Plato). Kant’s contemporary, Johann Georg Hamann, subverts Kant’s foundation of revelation and rightfully so.
Personally, I’m a big fan of Herman Bavink’s philosophy of revelation and worldview.
0
Posted on 4/18/21 at 2:34 pm to DomincDecoco
You like to see homeboys naked? That’s cool.
ETA: dammit junkfunky.
ETA: dammit junkfunky.
This post was edited on 4/18/21 at 2:36 pm
Posted on 4/18/21 at 2:51 pm to soccerfüt
quote:
where in Baton Rouge would they park all the Chargers
Posted on 4/18/21 at 2:59 pm to UndercoverBryologist
You have a 100% turnover of the cells in your body about every 7 years. Are you still the same person you were 7 years ago?
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:12 pm to HempHead
quote:Completely irrelevant.
A pie is meant to be consumed, whereas a ship is meant to exist indefinitely. So I don't think the comparison is completely 1:1
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:19 pm to UndercoverBryologist
The human body continually replaces all its cells, so regardless if the ship is the same or not, are you?
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:23 pm to Zappas Stache
quote:Not everything in the body changes.
The human body continually replaces all its cells, so regardless if the ship is the same or not, are you?
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:47 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Completely irrelevant.
I view it as completely relevant when we are talking about what constitutes a "thing".
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:49 pm to UndercoverBryologist
The vessel is the same. No different in remodeling a house.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:51 pm to UndercoverBryologist
We basically do that with our aircraft. While much of the skin and structural parts are original, most components have been replaced several times.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:31 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Completely irrelevant.
Complete bupkis.
You are talking about a pan with a pie in it which you eat a piece of pie and replace it with a piece of pizza, something totally different.
It’s still a pan of something but it’s so obviously different it’s not even a question as to when the pie is gone and the pizza is there. It’s no longer a pie, it’s a pizza.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:59 pm to HempHead
quote:Why in the world would it matter if you eat the pie or not. It’s completely irrelevant.
I view it as completely relevant when we are talking about what constitutes a "thing".
Posted on 4/18/21 at 10:05 pm to fr33manator
quote:That’s the point. I deliberately chose something completely different to make it easier to see in your mind how silly the concept this hypothetical question is.
You are talking about a pan with a pie in it which you eat a piece of pie and replace it with a piece of pizza, something totally different.
It’s still a pan of something but it’s so obviously different it’s not even a question as to when the pie is gone and the pizza is there. It’s no longer a pie, it’s a pizza.
If you replace something, it’s not the same thing, even if it looks exactly the same.
If you replace all of the items in your refrigerator over time as you use it or it expires, is it the same shite in your fridge a year later? No, it’s new stuff in your fridge.
This post was edited on 4/18/21 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 4/18/21 at 10:43 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
That’s the point. I deliberately chose something completely different to make it easier to see in your mind how silly the concept this hypothetical question is.
That’s because you obviously don’t understand the concept to begin with.
A pie is a consumable. It is designed to be eaten. To be transformed. You don’t name it. It’s completely different from something like a ship, or a house, or a team.
The name is what’s important. The concept of the thing remains. It is the sum of its parts, not its parts.
Now if you went to the diner, the same diner every day, and ordered a piece of blueberry pie. Eventually you might order “the usual”
You know it’s not the same pie, everyone knows it’s a different pie, but it’s your order, your usual. You have transformed it from a passing thing to a static concept.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 11:07 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
If you replace all of the items in your refrigerator over time as you use it or it expires, is it the same shite in your fridge a year later? No, it’s new stuff in your fridge
But it’s the same fridge.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 11:09 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
A completely different ship. That was easy.
Except for nerve cells, your body replaces itself with new cells every 7-10 years.
Does that mean you're a different person every 7-10 years?
Posted on 4/18/21 at 11:43 pm to RazorBroncs
The Rolling Stones say hi.
Posted on 4/19/21 at 11:09 am to LordSaintly
quote:
Does that mean you're a different person every 7-10 years?
Feels like it sometimes
Posted on 4/30/21 at 11:20 pm to UndercoverBryologist
Jeans remain
The jeans are the same,
But the man’s sure changed,
And after the journey,
Just the clothes ReMain
The spot in my chair,
So familiar the seat,
But a journey’s been walked,
Boots the same,
Not the feet
Well I’ve worn out some wallets,
When there’s money to burn,
There’s a spot in my pocket
I’ve paid dearly to earn
It’s the same old “I love you”’s
The same lullabies,
But the Children they grow,
Keep their smile and their eyes,
No I’m not the same man,
Though I wear the same clothes,
And the same old eyes look,
As the changing winds blow,
And the hands that are writing,
Like a picture in frame,
I might be the same man,
But the man’s not the same
The jeans are the same,
But the man’s sure changed,
And after the journey,
Just the clothes ReMain
The spot in my chair,
So familiar the seat,
But a journey’s been walked,
Boots the same,
Not the feet
Well I’ve worn out some wallets,
When there’s money to burn,
There’s a spot in my pocket
I’ve paid dearly to earn
It’s the same old “I love you”’s
The same lullabies,
But the Children they grow,
Keep their smile and their eyes,
No I’m not the same man,
Though I wear the same clothes,
And the same old eyes look,
As the changing winds blow,
And the hands that are writing,
Like a picture in frame,
I might be the same man,
But the man’s not the same
Posted on 4/30/21 at 11:52 pm to LordSaintly
Jeans remain pt 2:
All we are is a name,
And the name holds the power,
Static but not the same,
With the passing of hours,
Like a song being sung,
Same voice from same lips,
But the same little words,
Come out different each trip
Speaking from the Same memory,
It’s the same story told,
Written when I was young,
Now the voice has grown old
Well I tell the same joke,
Practiced cadence and rhyme,
But somehow the same words,
Come out different each time
Sun rises, sun sets,
But it’s not the same moon,
That same different man sings,
A new familiar tune,
Like a carpenter crafting,
So practiced his stroke,
Shaving off of old wood,
A new story that’s spoke
From the tiniest seed,
Grows the mightiest tree,
And it’s not really different,
For you or for me
It’s the same heart that feels,
Each new pleasure and pain,
After time leaves it’s scars,
Man and memory remain
All we are is a name,
And the name holds the power,
Static but not the same,
With the passing of hours,
Like a song being sung,
Same voice from same lips,
But the same little words,
Come out different each trip
Speaking from the Same memory,
It’s the same story told,
Written when I was young,
Now the voice has grown old
Well I tell the same joke,
Practiced cadence and rhyme,
But somehow the same words,
Come out different each time
Sun rises, sun sets,
But it’s not the same moon,
That same different man sings,
A new familiar tune,
Like a carpenter crafting,
So practiced his stroke,
Shaving off of old wood,
A new story that’s spoke
From the tiniest seed,
Grows the mightiest tree,
And it’s not really different,
For you or for me
It’s the same heart that feels,
Each new pleasure and pain,
After time leaves it’s scars,
Man and memory remain
This post was edited on 4/30/21 at 11:58 pm
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