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re: Philando Castile shooting dashcam video released - NSFW
Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:37 am to Isabelle81
Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:37 am to Isabelle81
quote:It doesn't matter what he said to the cop, it matters what he did. Cops are trained to respond to actions not words. In this situation he continued to do something after he was told numerous times to stop. The cop even reached inside the vehicle to get him to stop whatever he was doing. Yet the guy continued to do something. Common sense would've made most people freeze after the first warning.
Agree. I do t believe that man reached for his gun. He wouldn't have told the officer he had one if that was his intention. This cop committed murder.
Cops are dealing with a potentially deadly situation every time they pull someone over, regardless of who is in the car. They have to treat every single situation as such. There's a plethora of dead cops across the country because they let their guard down, even if only for a second. That's why, when dealing with the police, you do exactly as you are told; for their safety and yours.
The simple fact of the matter is that we have, yet again, another case wherein someone died because they disobeyed an officer. I have every confidence that had he stopped moving when the cop first said "don't reach for it" (or even stopped after the second or third time he was told) then Castile would be alive today, getting high and bitching about white cops.
Furthermore, I'm a permit holder and in my interactions with police I have made damned sure to make my hands clearly visible at all times and always given the officer the option of disarming me.
We laughed when some legislator proposed a class on how to respond to cops, but seeing as there are plenty of dumbasses who lack common sense, and people keep dying because of it, maybe that should be a required class in high school. Several people in this thread need to take that course.
This post was edited on 6/21/17 at 8:46 am
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Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:37 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
. If I was on this jury I am not sure I would have agreed it was reasonable to assume he was going for a gun that was not visible to the officer.
Well all of the jurors unanimously didm
Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:39 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Which is the problem I have with this case. If I was on this jury I am not sure I would have agreed it was reasonable to assume he was going for a gun that was not visible to the officer
Had you been on the jury or paid attention to the case you would have seen that the reason the jury unanimously didn't not charge the officer was that it was established that the gun was visible and Mr Castile was reaching towards it with his hands not visible to the officer.
quote:
Also the totality of circumstances leads me to think a calmer officer would not have perceived this as a threat.
After the third time you tell someone to stop reaching for a gun and they don't or give an excuse you are no longer questioning what they are doing but have to assume ill intent. That officer doesn't know the man, doesn't know his intent, he only knows there is a weapon, and with my weapon drawn he is still reaching toward his.
quote:
Generally speaking most people don't tell an officer they have a weapon in the car with their SO and baby in the backseat only to ambush an officer.
Generally speaking someone with a CCP will 1. Place hands on steering wheel (turning the light on if it's night) 2. Keep hands visible and inform the officer you have a weapon 3. Offer to let the officer disarm you. You do not 1.Make sudden movements 2.Disregard the officer's commands 3.Not disclose the location 4.Make it difficult for the officer to see your hands 5.Exit the vehicle without the officer knowing 6.Reach for the weapon. Mr Castile followed one of the three DO's or gave himself a 33% chance of being in a good situation, he also committed four of the six deadly DON'T's or gave himself a 67% chance of being in a bad situation.
The officer should have had Mr Castile step out of the vehicle and disarm him when he said he had a gun, but your safety is your concern. The officer's is his. There is a reason you are taught how to act and what to do and not to do during a traffic stop in a CCP class.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:43 am to jbgleason
I just don't understand what the dead guy was doing. The cop seemed totally fine with him having a gun.
"Ok. Ok. Don't reach for it, though."
Hands should immediately come off of weapon.
(Hands should've never been on weapon.)
"Ok. Ok. Don't reach for it, though."
Hands should immediately come off of weapon.
(Hands should've never been on weapon.)
Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:48 am to texag7
quote:
Are you serious? Try getting a higher IQ and then get back to us
Not saying I agree with him, but if your only response to his question is calling him dumb you are losing the argument.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:48 am to Blob Fish
This shooting was so justified that the officer got fired.
The outcome of this should tell you exactly what happened. This wasn't murder. This also wasn't a justified shooting. People typically don't get fired if it's determined that they did their job correctly.
The outcome of this should tell you exactly what happened. This wasn't murder. This also wasn't a justified shooting. People typically don't get fired if it's determined that they did their job correctly.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:48 am to Alt26
quote:
his one is a tough one. I've been in a car when the driver was stopped by cops and he had a gun in the glove compartment along with his carry permit and registration. The first thing the driver did when the cop walked up is tell the cop he had a gun and permit in the glove box along with his registration and insurance. The cop unholstered his gun and told the driver to reach slowly for the glove box, which the driver did. No one was shot.
This story terrifies the absolute frick out of me.
After hearing so many of these stories and now seeing so many videos, there is a ZERO percent chance that I reach for fricking anything while a LEO has a pulled weapon.
frick THAT!
Were I in the scenario you stated, if an officer tells me to reach for the glove box where I've told him I have a weapon WHILE he's holding an unholstered gun, he's being told, "No...I'm not reaching for anything, but you have my full permission to search the glove box for what you need."
No way am I taking the chance that he suddenly feels threatened after telling me to put my hands where I just told him I had a weapon.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:51 am to Breesus
quote:
Well all of the jurors unanimously didm
That's kind of the point I've been trying to make. Legally the officer is innocent...but maybe he still isn't fit to be a police officer.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:53 am to AwesomeSauce
quote:
Had you been on the jury or paid attention to the case you would have seen that the reason the jury unanimously didn't not charge the officer
Um he was indicted and charged already...
. He was subsequently acquitted by a petit jury at trial. He was most definitely charged after the shooting.
The rest of your post I kind of agree. The officer should have instructed him out of the vehicle to be disarmed however.
This post was edited on 6/21/17 at 8:54 am
Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:54 am to DeathValley85
Yeah, I don't think the cop went out to maliciously murder Castile.
But he, in no way, is fit to be a cop. And should probably not be allowed to a CCL.
But he, in no way, is fit to be a cop. And should probably not be allowed to a CCL.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 8:59 am to pankReb
quote:
the officer got fired.
He was given voluntary separation, which most likely means he was offered a package instead of outright quiting as I'm sure he has no desire to live in that area or most likely be a cop anymore. The voluntary separation gives the PD the showing of doing the community good, but also allowing them to provide the officer with a separation package so he doesn't leave with nothing. Trying to play it off as if he was fired is disingenuous.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:01 am to pankReb
quote:
People typically don't get fired if it's determined that they did their job correctly.
While I may or may not agree with you as it regards this shooting, let's all keep in mind our local situation (Alton Sterling) where the officer clearly acted correctly yet the Mayor wants them fired immediately. The same politics may be at play in this case. We don't really know. So using his firing as a barometer may not be the best gauge.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:01 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
The officer should have instructed him out of the vehicle to be disarmed however.
This actually is a very good question...should that not be standard procedure when a driver says there is a weapon in the vehicle? Simply tell the driver to exit the vehicle and have them tell you where it is.
To do otherwise seems to cause a close quarters situation where someone is bound to get shot because visibility is shitty and too many things can appear to be a cause for alarm.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:04 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Um he was indicted and charged already
Yes because the DA and other local political leaders did not want "the blood on their hands". Turning it over to a jury allowed them to give the people the "power" and recuse themselves from major blame or recourse if no charges were filed.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:07 am to AwesomeSauce
quote:
recuse themselves from major blame or recourse if no charges were filed.
Except charges were filed?
Police officer charged in fatal shooting of Philando Castile
quote:
Philando Castile’s fatal encounter last July with St. Anthony police Officer Jeronimo Yanez lasted only a minute, but quickly escalated from a “respectful and compliant” exchange to one steeped in confusion and fear.
In an extraordinary move by a Minnesota prosecutor, authorities said the officer, not the civilian, is to blame for the tragic events that turned a traffic stop in a Twin Cities suburb into a flash point in the national debate over racial profiling and police use of force.
Yanez pulled Castile, a 32-year-old, over at 9:05 p.m. July 9 on Larpenteur Avenue near Fry Street in Falcon Heights. By 9:06 p.m., the young officer had fired seven shots into Castile’s car, killing him as his girlfriend and her 4-year-old daughter watched.
For those actions, Ramsey County Attorney John Choi said at a news conference Wednesday morning, Yanez will be charged with three felony counts — second-degree manslaughter and two counts of dangerous discharge of a firearm. He’s the first Minnesota officer charged in an on-duty killing in modern memory.
This post was edited on 6/21/17 at 9:10 am
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:16 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
It doesnt matter what you think you're doing, it matters what the cop thinks you're doing...
In other words, you can't control someone else's behavior.
The second sentence doesn't necessarily follow the first. Given that I'm aware of the cops psychology being of vital importance, I adjust my movements and behaviors accordingly. Thus of course no one can "control" anyone else's behavior, assuming the cop is not either bloodthirsty or of complete incompetence, reasonable awareness and cautious movements on my part can significantly put him at ease and thus drive the possibility of a mistaken shooting into the realm of almost none.
WE act as if there's an epidemic Of totally uncalled for police shootings and then people with certain ignorant opinions on guns suggest that they are the root cause of the issue when in reality, almost to the incident, these cases are riddled with people either being defiant, outright confrontational, or in this case negligently irresponsible in their behaviors.
This post was edited on 6/21/17 at 9:17 am
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:16 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Except charges were filed?
Yes, had they not been the city would have burned to the ground after the outrage caused by the FB live video that his GF shot. I understand charges were filed, I also understand that a jury of people looked at all the evidence and every single one of them said the cop did not deserve to be punished for the incident. Is the verbiage what you are having a difficult time understanding? Or do you not think public officials do things they don't agree with, or think is necessarily just, if it will lengthen their political career?
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:22 am to AwesomeSauce
quote:
I understand charges were filed, I also understand that a jury of people looked at all the evidence and every single one of them said the cop did not deserve to be punished for the incident.
They judged him not guilty, which is different than not being deserving of being punished. One implies morally justified guilt, the other innocence, though in our system there's no difference in the outcome. My personal opinion is that this could have been a case of jury nullification, where he broke the elements of the law, but the jury decided not to punish him for it. That's solely my opinion, however.
quote:
Is the verbiage what you are having a difficult time understanding?
I am starting to think this was the case. There's a big difference between someone being charged and someone being convicted. You kept on saying "charged" when I think you meant "convicted".
This post was edited on 6/21/17 at 9:25 am
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:24 am to AwesomeSauce
Rule no. 1: don't violate the law.
Rule no. 2: comply
Rule no. 3: "officer, I do have a gun in the vehicle" and "no sir, I won't move"
Unfortunate all the way around. Man is dead. Cop has to live with it the rest of his life. City will still pay out some $ to make somebody feel better.
Rule no. 2: comply
Rule no. 3: "officer, I do have a gun in the vehicle" and "no sir, I won't move"
Unfortunate all the way around. Man is dead. Cop has to live with it the rest of his life. City will still pay out some $ to make somebody feel better.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:24 am to ChewyDante
quote:
WE act as if there's an epidemic Of totally uncalled for police shootings and then people with certain ignorant opinions on guns suggest that they are the root cause of the issue when in reality, almost to the incident, these cases are riddled with people either being defiant, outright confrontational, or in this case negligently irresponsible in their behaviors.
I basically agree with that all, with the caveat that it feels as though we are beginning to have a system where we as citizens essentially have to act around LEOs the same way we would around that kid from The Twilight zone so as not to piss them off or they'll send us to the cornfield. Know what I mean?
Yes...you should certainly not do certain things around a LEO, but we as citizens should not be expected to walk on eggshels around officers just in case they misinterpret our actions. It's a tough situation, sure...but truly innocent people who are just not trained in the appropriate way to diffuse situations like this could easily inadvertently make a situation worse by doing something that seems perfectly reasonable in every other time.
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