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Posted on 8/30/23 at 4:22 pm to TigerRagAndrew
quote:
For someone working 10-12 hours a day, commuting another 2, there isn't much time or energy to prepare healthy meals, eat right, or exercise. Also it's hard as hell to get 8 hours of sleep during the night due to having to corral kids. None of this adds up to the ability to lose weight on our own.
You don’t need to “eat right”. You need to eat less.
The pills force you to do that. Great, it will help with the obesity epidemic.
But what will it hurt? What are the externalities?
We never think about that’s. Once someone can make money off of something and the harm from it is isn’t immediate and obvious, it’s a done deal.
Personally I think anytime we insulate people from the consequences of their own actions, we get worse as a species, so I think these pills are going to be a net negative.
Posted on 8/30/23 at 4:32 pm to lsu777
quote:
im actually on opposite end. i dont think aerobic exercise matters that much. atleast in terms of weight management/BF% management which i beleive determines most health benifits
LOL, there is a reason you don't see many fat serious cyclists. I burn about 1700 calories an hour just in LSD training (long steady distance) and quite a bit more doing HIIT. That sort of caloric burn is basically impossible lifting at my weight. Both have their benefits and I have do both because lifting helps me be more competitive in my chosen sports but my sports rely on power-to-weight ratio so mass is only good up to the point that power-to-weight suffers. I think doing one to the exclusion of the other is a poor call for overall health and fitness even marathoners should lift and powerlifters should not forgo cardio.
I fully maintain that morbidly obese people trying to lose weight will do better if they include cardio with weight training even looking at it from your lens they need to increase their oxygen uptake in order to be able to lift effectively, it is also excellent for their active recovery periods. One thing I will admit is to get really fit aerobically you have to be willing to suffer more than getting really strong.
Posted on 8/30/23 at 4:38 pm to Martini
All that said
Eat less and move more is still correct
Eat less and move more is still correct
Posted on 8/30/23 at 4:55 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
One thing I will admit is to get really fit aerobically you have to be willing to suffer more than getting really strong.
Lol what
Getting fit aerobically is simple, doesn’t take long, and doesn’t involve anything scary. It’s far easier than getting strong.
Out here acting like riding a bike is suffering.
This post was edited on 8/30/23 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 8/30/23 at 4:58 pm to Eurocat
God forbid people practice eating in moderation and regular exercising.
Posted on 8/30/23 at 5:07 pm to BRL79
quote:quote:Not necessarily. All calories do not interact with your body the same way. That's old school thought and not in touch with what is now known about certain forms of calories.
Calories in < calories out
That's the key to weight loss. Bottom line
Not in terms of weight loss, all else being equal. Eat a 1000 calories, burn 1100 and you lose some weight. But the fact is all else is rarely equal and usually reflected in your diet. What is left may be more lean muscle or more fat by percentage and that is related to where you get the calories from and what you are doing to burn calories.
The differences relate to how the body reacts to certain nutrients and food types as well as how energetic or sluggish you may feel. Some foods may actually rev up your metabolism and exercise, even something like a brisk walk, does rev up your metabolism for a period of time post-exercise.
And speaking as a fatty, there is only one way effective way to lose weight, and that is to be hungry for a while. You don't get fat by eating just the right amount of food, you won't lose it at any pace that feels like you are losing weight by simply exercising, and you will have to change your eating habits by limiting your calories.
Posted on 8/30/23 at 5:16 pm to schwartzy
It’s an injection
Posted on 8/30/23 at 6:22 pm to Uncle JackD
quote:
Pretty certain it’ll have way less consequences than being obese.
Maybe?
Maybe just as many? This use of this med and the med itself are brand new. By medication standards.
Posted on 8/30/23 at 6:46 pm to lsu777
quote:
im realyl glad those women are having success with the medicine, but to be fair monjauro and other GLP-1 drugs do not increase metabolism, they simply control insulin and hunger so you eat less.
It does more than keep you feeling full. It also eliminates cravings which can be a major issue for women, especially in menopause. It also addresses insulin resistance which develops in many who gained a chunk of weight in a short period of time, like women who are experiencing menopause.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 7:37 am to Martini
quote:
And also I’m righter than Steve Bannon. Just because someone think’s different than you doesn’t automatically make them “liberal “ which is a tired and much overused as well as understood term.
i didnt say you were a liberal i said that view point was a liberal talking point and it is akin to saying black people cant get ID's. As in black people cant drive to a grocery store. despite what you may think, its racist essentially saying black people are not capable.
quote:
That’s rich. Got a link?
As usual you’re taking an all or nothing scorched earth opinion. Which is all it is-an opinion.
I’m not naive enough to believe there are not plenty of our population that is obese by their very own accord. This is true and we all know it. And that part of your argument is correct and valid.
But to lump, well…99% of “fatties” (and now poverty stricken) people overweight and poor through simple poor choices of their own is a cop out and fricking stupid.
bro if it wasnt a choice to eat less than this medicine would not work. all this medicine does is control insulin and make you less hungry so you eat less
less than 5% of the population have real thyroid issues expected to rise to around 12% in next 25 years.
quote:
no genetics involved. No metabolic or hormonal. No societal. No marketing aggressively by processed food companies.
genetics dont make you fat, eating too much does
metabolic- true metabolic as in thryoid...sure. its not a very high %
hormonal- doesnt really cause weight gain, causes loss of energy and cravings. again...eat less, move more
advertising....again choice
quote:
Parents are not providing healthy lifestyles maybe because there is no parent or that parent is working 2 jobs or any of a hundred different reasons.
takes 15-20 min to cook a healthy meal. Its a choice and a priorties
quote:
And fwiw I lift light 4 days, cardio 6 days, stretch 7 days and eat as clean as I can most days but I’m old so I have the time. It is a conscious choice and one that could easily not fit into many people’s lifestyle for whatever circumstance. It was not always my lifestyle but one I chose and while it can be affordable it can also not be
your lifestyle is a choice. really glad you lift so much and you should join us on the H&F board
quote:
But hey-eat less and move more.
glad you could see the light
quote:
I didn’t call you a dick.
that would have been fine. IM a believer that if the shoe fits, wear the mother fricker
telling the truth inst really being a dick though, its more people are just not used to hearing it
I 100% support this medicine and think it is a super drug. But what it does is make it easier to make good choices.
you talked alot about jobs and essentially what is normal in society. unfortunately it has become normal to not exercise and being strong and looked down upon. All those things are choices.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 9:30 am to Eurocat
There’s a lot of early field evidence coming out about the type of weight these drugs are causing people to lose.
DEXA scans are showing a 2-to-1 muscle to fat loss ratio. That is completely inverse of what you would like to see in a healthy weight loss scenario.
Basically, it’s taking people from being fat to being skinny fat and possibly even more unhealthy.
DEXA scans are showing a 2-to-1 muscle to fat loss ratio. That is completely inverse of what you would like to see in a healthy weight loss scenario.
Basically, it’s taking people from being fat to being skinny fat and possibly even more unhealthy.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:17 am to Earnest_P
Oh you sweet summer child.
To a degree it is simple, but simple doesn't mean easy.
This tells me you have never been significantly anaerobically fit in your life.
But that 20kg plate is chasing you around the gym? Try descending a mountain pass at over 50mph with nothing between you and hundreds of feet bouncing off boulders but a guard rail not designed to stop you.
I tell you what Mr. Worrell I have a climbing based training day planned for Sunday, 60 miles and just over 17,000 vertical feet of climbing I will put good money up that you can't finish it in 3X the time it takes me to finish if you can even finish the first climb.
The next time you have been in the gym for 6 straight hours exercising at a HR of 140-200 never stopping and looking at another set that is going to redline you once again all without A/C then you might have an idea what suffering feels like.
quote:
Getting fit aerobically is simple,
To a degree it is simple, but simple doesn't mean easy.
quote:
doesn’t take long,
This tells me you have never been significantly anaerobically fit in your life.
quote:
doesn’t involve anything scary.
But that 20kg plate is chasing you around the gym? Try descending a mountain pass at over 50mph with nothing between you and hundreds of feet bouncing off boulders but a guard rail not designed to stop you.
quote:
Out here acting like riding a bike is suffering.
I tell you what Mr. Worrell I have a climbing based training day planned for Sunday, 60 miles and just over 17,000 vertical feet of climbing I will put good money up that you can't finish it in 3X the time it takes me to finish if you can even finish the first climb.
The next time you have been in the gym for 6 straight hours exercising at a HR of 140-200 never stopping and looking at another set that is going to redline you once again all without A/C then you might have an idea what suffering feels like.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:02 am to mule74
quote:
DEXA scans are showing a 2-to-1 muscle to fat loss ratio
I am in clinical research and have worked on studies on GLP-1 agonists. I have never seen any data that even remotely supports that claim.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:19 am to bazeball
Interesting anecdotal reports that it relieves depression and anxiety and diminishes cravings for drugs and alcohol.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:24 am to bazeball
quote:
I am in clinical research and have worked on studies on GLP-1 agonists. I have never seen any data that even remotely supports that claim.
because it there isnt any on any wide spread list of patients
there were a couple that came out but they were isolated
and all that scare shite is coming from people who do not understand how the medicines work like you and I
so gonna make this very very fricking clear
1) GLP-1 agonists do not increase metabolic rate, do not decrease mtor, does not have any mechanism to cause uncoupling and does not cause the body to produce any excess heat
2) GLP-1 agonists work by controlling glucose secreation, slowing gastric emptying, suppressing glucagon....which when combined control the feelings of hunger and lowers blood sugar levels.
3) GLP-1 is a naturally occurring hormone in the small intestine
so in short this medicine does not burn fat nor does it burn muscle. simply put your ratio of fat to muscle loss will be determined by the following
1) total caloric deficit
2) length of time in the deficit
3) total protein intake
4) what type of lifestyle you live....i.e. are you weight training or are you training for a marathon. your body will respond accordingly to the demands you place on it.
SO STOP SAYING THE MEDICINE MAKES YOU LOSE MUSCLE!!!!
the medicine has not effect on that. Simply put the dexa scans that showed that were from women in extreme deficits eating less than 1k calories on avg and less than 50g protein all while not doing any form of resistance training. The body adapted to the demands placed on it just as it would if you put people on the same diet without the medicine. Same results.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:30 am to Obtuse1
quote:
Obtuse1
being anaerobically fit to the level you are talking about is a waste of fricking time unless you enjoy it.
quote:
But that 20kg plate is chasing you around the gym? Try descending a mountain pass at over 50mph with nothing between you and hundreds of feet bouncing off boulders but a guard rail not designed to stop you.
why? you gonna run from every encounter you have??? or fight? i would much rather be strong and fight
quote:
I tell you what Mr. Worrell I have a climbing based training day planned for Sunday, 60 miles and just over 17,000 vertical feet of climbing I will put good money up that you can't finish it in 3X the time it takes me to finish if you can even finish the first climb.
but why? do you think this pertains to the average person
quote:
The next time you have been in the gym for 6 straight hours exercising at a HR of 140-200 never stopping and looking at another set that is going to redline you once again all without A/C then you might have an idea what suffering feels like.
again how in the frick is this a good use of time? in the end there has to be results to be had from that time spent. very little
its cool you love the shite you do...great, but
1) nothing more than walking is needed for aerobic health
2) weightlifting progressively give way more bang for your buck
3) strength is the basis of fitness
4) strength improves quality of life much more than being able to run a marathon ever will
5) lifting is much better for aesthetics because in the end it all comes down to being healthier and looking better.
frick a 6 hour exercise session, dont care if its weightlifting, running, biking, climbing whatever...complete waste of training economy.
congrats though
Posted on 8/31/23 at 3:21 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
This tells me you have never been significantly anaerobically fit in your life.
Define significantly. It is easy and simple to gain the ability to do long term steady state cardio, and it doesn’t take long to become decently aerobically fit.
quote:
But that 20kg plate is chasing you around the gym?
You said “really strong”. Don’t change it to being able to lift what any able-bodied person can lift on day 1 in the gym.
quote:
Try descending a mountain pass at over 50mph with nothing between you and hundreds of feet bouncing off boulders but a guard rail not designed to stop you.
That’s a sport, it’s not at all necessarily a part of getting fit. Nobody has to go mountain biking to get fit.
Everyone who wants to get “really strong” will step out of the rack with hundreds of pounds on their back.
quote:
I tell you what Mr. Worrell I have a climbing based training day planned for Sunday, 60 miles and just over 17,000 vertical feet of climbing I will put good money up that you can't finish it in 3X the time it takes me to finish if you can even finish the first climb. The next time you have been in the gym for 6 straight hours exercising at a HR of 140-200 never stopping and looking at another set that is going to redline you once again all without A/C then you might have an idea what suffering feels like.
You’re choosing unnecessary suffering because you like riding a bike in an extreme fashion. Good for you, but you’re not making apt comparisons.
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