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Started By
Message
re: OT Historians - Where Was Japan Getting Their Oil from During WWII?
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:21 am to OWLFAN86
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:21 am to OWLFAN86
quote:
Conquered/occupied land Indonesia Burma China
The entire reason Japan attacked in the Pacific was to get to the oil in the Dutch East Indies, now Indonesia. In fact, the reason they attacked when they did was because of oil.
Japan got the vast majority of their oil from the US until FDR slapped an oil embargo on Japan because of their invasion of China. Once he did this, Japan knew they had a window of time to either get their hands on an another source of oil or face defeat. They calculated they had enough oil stocks to keep their fleet mobile for something like 6 months. So they chose to take the oil fields in the Dutch East Indies. But they knew the US and Britain would not sit by and just let this happen and this would have to be neutralized in the Pacific. Thus, the plan to deal with the Americans and British in one fell swoop was born and later executed beginning on December 7, 1941.
1
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:22 am to Dire Wolf
quote:
oil baws don’t get enough credit for aiding the war effort. Pretty much all of the Allies oil and refined products came from the US.
leading the way
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:24 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
The entire reason Japan attacked in the Pacific was to get to the oil in the Dutch East Indies
You explained this on page one more than a year ago. This is a random bump thread.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:32 am to fr33manator
Their problem wasn't necessarily oil or access to natural resources. It was that the Japs didn't value merchant shipping as much as they should - both their own and ours.
Their tactical doctrine for their subs was to emphasize striking Allied warships and not merchant/supply shipping. Conversely, their merchant convoy/ASW warfare capability was wholly inadequate. By late '44/early '45 they couldn't move a canoe across the South China Sea or Sea of Japan without it getting sunk by our submarine force*.
*You could make an argument that the US submarine service did more to defeat Japan than our carrier air arm or USMC. If it hadn't been for the USN Bureau of Ordnance refusing to address the problems with the Mark 14 torpedo, the war may have progressed even quicker.
Their tactical doctrine for their subs was to emphasize striking Allied warships and not merchant/supply shipping. Conversely, their merchant convoy/ASW warfare capability was wholly inadequate. By late '44/early '45 they couldn't move a canoe across the South China Sea or Sea of Japan without it getting sunk by our submarine force*.
*You could make an argument that the US submarine service did more to defeat Japan than our carrier air arm or USMC. If it hadn't been for the USN Bureau of Ordnance refusing to address the problems with the Mark 14 torpedo, the war may have progressed even quicker.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:41 am to Theduckhunter
The USA began supplying Great Britain with 100 octane fighter aircraft gasoline almost from the very beginning of the war. The USA was neutral but was supplying Britain's Spitfire's with this fuel throughout the year 1940.
Germany had no 100 octane gas in 1940.
Also, in 1941, the US Navy began active combat operations against the German Navy, and fired on German vessels in some instances.
All while the USA was officially neutral.
Germany had no 100 octane gas in 1940.
Also, in 1941, the US Navy began active combat operations against the German Navy, and fired on German vessels in some instances.
All while the USA was officially neutral.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:42 am to SixthAndBarone
quote:
And they had to get oil from the China area, that’s why they occupied China
I could be wrong, but I think the embargo was BECAUSE of the occupation of China.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 10:33 am to upgrade
quote:
And they had to get oil from the China area, that’s why they occupied China
quote:
I could be wrong, but I think the embargo was BECAUSE of the occupation of China.
You’re correct. Oil had noting to do with Japan’s decision to invade China. In fact, while there were natural resources Japan wanted from China, oil wasn’t one of them simply because China didn’t have any oil to take.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 11:24 am to SixthAndBarone
quote:
I was under the impression that the US embargoed them and that’s why they attacked Pearl. And they had to get oil from the China area, that’s why they occupied China.
Japan invaded Manchuria in 1931. They invaded China in 1937. We didn’t embargo them until August of 1941, after they invaded French Indochina in July.
The Pearl Harbor attack wasn’t solely a direct result of the embargo - tensions over Japan’s aggressive expansion had been building for years, and Japan knew that war was inevitable. Japan starting planning the attack in January of 1941, over 6 months before the embargo.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 11:36 am to AlwysATgr
Probably Indonesia would be my guess.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 11:38 am to AlwysATgr
quote:
Where Was Japan Getting Their Oil from During WWII?
Before July 1941 - USA
July 1941 - December 1941- storage and Mexico
After Pearl Harbor - the Dutch East Indes
Posted on 11/1/24 at 12:38 pm to AlwysATgr
They got the vast majority of it from us until tensions rose and the embargo started. Then they turned to the Dutch East Indes (Indonesia today) and SE Asia (rubber was a big resource they wanted to control as well) after that. They bought oil directly from Shell (Dutch company) for a while before the Netherlands fell to Germany and the Japanese saw an opportunity to seize the oil fields that Shell controlled.
This post was edited on 11/1/24 at 12:40 pm
Posted on 11/1/24 at 12:51 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Japan chose option 2. But for that option to work, Japan had to first neutralize the US Pacific Fleet, US forces in the Philippines, and neutralize British forces in Hong Kong and Singapore.
Which was stupid in the grand scheme of everything. If Japan bypasses the Philippines, Hong Kong, and Singapore - focusing solely on the Dutch East Indies - there’s a good chance the United States and Great Britain do nothing. Public sentiment in America was still against the prospect of war and the British were not about to go to war with Japan when Germany and Italy were already giving them a bad time. They especially weren’t about to go to war against Japan without the United States.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 12:53 pm to upgrade
quote:
I could be wrong, but I think the embargo was BECAUSE of the occupation of China.
Kinda, but not really. The US and allies were supplying oil (and other resources) to Japan during their occupation of China for several years. The embargo was kicked in officially August 1, 1941 in response to Japan's assault and occupation of a few airfields and oilfields in "Indochina", which is what we refer to as Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc.
Since they got the vast majority of their O&G products from the US, they had no choice but to expand their mission in SE Asia from their pov.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 2:21 pm to Darth_Vader
Some quality purse swinging in this thread, and some good historical discussions too. 4*, would read again. 
I would add, especially @Darth_Vader, that you would find Operation Snow to be a very interesting read on this subject. Soviet moles in the FDR White House goaded FDR into moves that they knew would provoke war. Operation Snow on Amazon
I would add, especially @Darth_Vader, that you would find Operation Snow to be a very interesting read on this subject. Soviet moles in the FDR White House goaded FDR into moves that they knew would provoke war. Operation Snow on Amazon
Posted on 11/1/24 at 2:24 pm to TigerHornII
quote:
Some quality purse swinging in this thread,
as always, I used to be a pretty well versed WWII historian but I let it lapse, if I have a question these days, Darth is my go to guy
Posted on 11/1/24 at 2:31 pm to AlwysATgr
Indonesia
Posted on 11/1/24 at 2:59 pm to AlwysATgr
During WWII they were getting from Dutch East Indies. They were burning unrefined oil in their ships as well
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