re: Operation Meetinghouse - The Most Destructive Bombing Raid in History

quote:

---

Unit 731

---

And?

quote:

---

many don't realize the Japanese had approached the soviets offering to surrender before the atom bombs were dropped.

---

when you say the Japanese you imply it was official. it was not. some Japanese had approached the US also but the ruling faction NEVER surrendered. the Emporor of Japan surrendered and the people followed him.

quote:

---

no reason for Americans to invade the mainland either; they were out of oil, fuel and food. your quote is revisionist history imo, justifying the mass murder of civilians and showboating to the soviets.

---

no, YOU are the revisionist. there most assuredly could have been the need to invade them. the atom bombs and the Soviets declaring war convinced the Emparor (sp) his people had suffered enough and he surrendered.

Outstanding fact-filled smackdown Lord Vader!

I would add that post-war, we found hundreds of the deadly Japanese Ohka "Cherry Blossom" piloted rockets in caves on the main islands, along with thousands of aircraft we didn't know they had. The Cherry Blossom was the equivalent of a modern anti-ship missile with a human for the guidance system and a 2600 lb warhead. It was very hard to shoot down, capable of speeds up to 620 MPH in a shallow dive.

A few were used as an initial experiment in the defense of Okinawa. The first sank a US destroyer in seconds, another veered high at the last second thanks to a lucky flak hit from its intended victim, detonating 50 yards away and still causing major damage. They sank/damaged beyond repair three more ships, and caused major damage to another three. We might have lost hundreds of ships to these things had we gone in close to the Japanese shore to invade. At sea, they were limited because they had to be carrier by very vulnerable G4M bombers. Shore launched from caves would have been another matter altogether.

The Chinese have been angered over the downplaying or outright denial of Japanese atrocities in Japanese textbooks too. Think about everything that happened in Chinese places like Shanghai, Nanjing, and countless places in between?

The Chinese civilian deaths are astronomical compared to every other nation outside of the Soviet Union.

Yep, the Japanese treated their other Asian counterparts far worse than western colonial powers such as the Dutch, French, or British. If China were strong in the 20s and 30s, they would’ve held Japan in check, limited their expansion, and saved millions of lives. Then again, Japan and a lot of the pacific would’ve turned Communist with a strong China.

quote:

---

war is hell.. but man that's a lot of innocents killed

---

True, but the firebombing raids did that kind of damage night after night. By '45, the US was ready for the war to be over and it was important that the Japanese surrender before the Russians got too involved, which is why (well, one reason why) we were stepping up the game. Japan was free to surrender whenever they wished.

During the Tokyo attack civilians jumped into the rivers to avoid the flames, but at points the rivers themselves were boiling. Imagine the kind of thermal energy it takes to do that.

We let the emperor stay. You could argue that's a condition

Which was honestly a great thing since the emperor was their god. I read that the only time the Japanese population heard his voice was when Hirohito informed his subjects of Japanese surrender. I believe part of the reason the pacification of Japan went so smoothly was because of that decision.

quote:

---

The older I get, the more I question and criticize the fire bombing of cities like Dresden and Tokyo.

---

But you seem to omit Guernica and London in your lopsided comment?
And that whole Nanking episode. What were your thoughts of the ethical treatment of the civilians there.
Maybe Poland might be considered.
Operation Barbarossa was surely another problem.
None of our enemies were great humanitarians.
My thinking is that the brutality of the whole war basically required that drastic measures be taken ASAP in order to stop the dying in all areas of conflict. Time delays meant continuing death - theirs and ours.

And yes, brushing the Soviets back was a consideration.

But here is the better test - did we implement the Marshall plan or the Morgenthau plan after the war?
When in history has another nation taken such care to rebuild enemies? Whine elsewhere. Some of us know the truth.