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re: On this day in history 1844: Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith murdered by irate mob

Posted on 6/29/25 at 2:15 pm to
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
49009 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 2:15 pm to
hand up
regardless, the need for societal norms and human morality is indisputable. Religion provides that
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
66691 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 2:23 pm to
quote:

regardless, the need for societal norms and human morality is indisputable. Religion provides that

NO argument from me on that.

Physicist Dyson Freeman, who was an agnostic, raised his children in the Episcopalian church for that very reason. And he continued to attend church after they grew up.
Posted by Howyouluhdat
On Fleek St
Member since Jan 2015
9105 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 2:25 pm to
quote:

This must hit so hard if you don’t know what words mean.



I’m sorry my words went over your head
Posted by Howyouluhdat
On Fleek St
Member since Jan 2015
9105 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 2:57 pm to
quote:

You are clearly not equipped for that discussion.



Try me. They are one in the same my friend
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
63786 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 2:59 pm to
*one AND the same.
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
63786 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 3:00 pm to
And they’re not by the way.
Posted by oldtrucker
Marianna, Fl
Member since Apr 2013
3502 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 3:01 pm to
You caught me
Posted by Rust Cohle
Baton rouge
Member since Mar 2014
2153 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 3:12 pm to
You can dilute the word worship from something, that is reserved for the Devine, to mean value, and so much so that everything is worship, and it loses meaning, and God to a catch all to mean anything also, but I would reserve these words for God.

Because then I could change any word to mean whatever I want, like baptize. Like saying a gym bro gets baptized with a cold plunge transforming his life to something bigger and better. Then try to argue that anyone can get baptized.

Words matter, we have words like passionate, devoted, committed, even fanatic, and when someone exchanges one of these for worships, they’re speaking in hyperbole.
This post was edited on 6/29/25 at 3:14 pm
Posted by Howyouluhdat
On Fleek St
Member since Jan 2015
9105 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

one AND the same.



Don’t be that guy. Nobody likes you and yes they are regardless of definition. You will truly never know if there is a higher power or not until you die. You can’t die on the hill of “ I don’t know if there is or not so I’m agnostic” because that means you’ve put thought into it and if you’ve thought about it then you have most likely looked into it further so either you believe or you don’t. It’s not something that needs pondering over for years and years.
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
63786 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 3:18 pm to
quote:

Nobody likes you


My momma loves me.

quote:

You will truly never know if there is a higher power or not until you die. You can’t die on the hill of “ I don’t know if there is or not so I’m agnostic” because that means you’ve put thought into it and if you’ve thought about it then you have most likely looked into it further so either you believe or you don’t. It’s not something that needs pondering over for years and years.


I don’t know what you mean by all this.
Posted by Howyouluhdat
On Fleek St
Member since Jan 2015
9105 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 3:38 pm to
quote:

don’t know what you mean by all this.



It means with all the resources we have you should be able to come to a conclusion. You know, theist or not
This post was edited on 6/29/25 at 3:38 pm
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
63786 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 3:41 pm to
I disagree.
Posted by oldtrucker
Marianna, Fl
Member since Apr 2013
3502 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 3:47 pm to
The Bible itself uses worship in ways other then to GOD.
Posted by Rust Cohle
Baton rouge
Member since Mar 2014
2153 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 4:45 pm to
Hit me with the verses! I’m aware of the many that use worship in reference to God or other gods. And many verses that say do not love, follow, store up, be friends with and serve the things of this world.

“Worship” is usually a conscious act of bowing, sacrificing, praying, or otherwise expressing reverence.

But loving the world, hoarding wealth, or idolizing relationships, while spiritually dangerous, is often framed as competing allegiance, not worship per se.
Posted by Howyouluhdat
On Fleek St
Member since Jan 2015
9105 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 5:01 pm to
quote:

But loving the world, hoarding wealth, or idolizing relationships, while spiritually dangerous, is often framed as competing allegiance, not worship per se.



Let’s breakdown the old English word weorthscipe which means worthiness, acknowledgment of worth. Worth can mean to give something high value or merit. Tangible things can be “worth” a lot to people whether monetarily or morally. Unfortunately a lot of peoples God is a selfish egotistical modern idolatry
Posted by Rust Cohle
Baton rouge
Member since Mar 2014
2153 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 7:22 pm to
quote:

Unfortunately a lot of peoples God is a selfish egotistical modern idolatry
why didn’t you use the word worship here?

I’m not going to pretend to know the Etymology and nuances of why they chose certain words to translate to but look at the Greek and Hebrew words- The biblical words shachah and proskuneo describe the physical and social act of showing submission or reverence, bowing or falling down.

This is not just some non theist view.
Even william Lane Craig disagrees with you. “It seems to me very clearly that an attitude of worship as opposed to mere admiration or awe or respect requires that the object of worship be perfectly good. … To be perfectly good, God is to be worshiped and adored because He is the supreme good.”

By your definition, everyone worships multiple things, no one’s gonna disagree with you to say that they people have a hierarchy of values.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
49009 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 7:36 pm to
word salad by a pseudo intellectual on line one
Posted by Rust Cohle
Baton rouge
Member since Mar 2014
2153 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 7:58 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/30/25 at 9:38 am
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
66691 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:58 pm to
quote:

with all the resources we have you should be able to come to a conclusion. You know, theist or not

What kind of resources would prove or disprove the existence of God?
Posted by jizzle6609
Houston
Member since Jul 2009
20103 posts
Posted on 6/29/25 at 9:01 pm to
Creators of Warren Jeffs who is still touching Mormons to this day from prison. Disgusting.
This post was edited on 6/29/25 at 9:02 pm
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