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2
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:20 pm to Lsut81
quote:
Did the pilots on Helios not have oxygen masks?
They may not have realized the plane wasn't pressurized. They didn't set the altitude in the cabin pressure control. So they took off breathing okay, then slowly succumbed to hypoxia in air.
I thought there would be a warning for that, or at least have the pilots were and oxygen meter.
(they have annoying finger clamp ones on small planes)
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:22 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
Has it been discussed in this thread that the plane was programmed to make the turn it made?
I've seen that reported recently.
Yes, twelve minutes before the last contact with ATC.
Also both pilots can see a course change with auto pilot on their display. So either one was down or they both knew.
But that flight plan was set before they made the last sign off.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:23 pm to Choupique19
quote:
This is about the 4th time search crews have rushed to an area. 0 for 3 so far, we'll see about this one.
U.S. Gen. McInerney Interview
I am starting to believe that Gen. McInerney's theory might be closer to what actually happened and perhaps the news of ongoing ocean search operations might end up being used as a diversion tactic before launching a special military op, somewhere in or near Pakistan, aimed at those responsible.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:27 pm to biscuitsngravy
quote:
the professional pilots, on air and in flight chat boards, have said pretty consistently that the mumblings reported from last contact and the turn back was consistent with something catastrophic happening and them trying to get to a close airport the pilots would have known of, with easy terrain. just a sad crash and sad how the networks trashed the pilot also.
I've seen many debunk that as well.
1. Transponder off 12 minutes before last contact.
ATC should have seen no transponder an radioed.
2. Course correction set as primary just before transponder goes out. This shows up as a primary on both screen with waypoint in view. So they knew they were not going to the waypoint, before they made last radio contact.
3. No emergency declared, and ACAS system shutdown as well.
4. The plane took waypoints across Malaysia and not towards the nearest airport.
5. The turn was initiated moments after last contact.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:28 pm to RunningBlake
quote:Last night my family member, a 777 captain for an overseas airline, told me that the automated emergency procedures programmed into every 777 are completely inconsistent with the sequence of events we've been told in the media. He believes that if the media accounts of the airplane's behavior are correct, a saboteur was flying the airplane.
Does anyone know what's wrong with the hypoxia theory?
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:36 pm to austintigerdad
quote:
He believes that if the media accounts of the airplane's behavior are correct
i have my doubts
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:42 pm to austintigerdad
quote:
Last night my family member, a 777 captain for an overseas airline, told me that the automated emergency procedures programmed into every 777 are completely inconsistent with the sequence of events we've been told in the media. He believes that if the media accounts of the airplane's behavior are correct, a saboteur was flying the airplane.
Your family member has changed his story. What happened?
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:45 pm to Napoleon
quote:
Yes, twelve minutes before the last contact with ATC.
Now the only explanation I have seen, and it came from a former 777 Pilot, is that very Sr pilots will often pre-program events in case of emergency...
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:52 pm to Lsut81
quote:
I mean its possible, hell anything is possible...
But the movements/happenings right around the time of the turn make it seem as someone was still in control and systematically doing things.
Go watch "Effects of hypoxia" on YouTube.
If it's slow cabin depressurization there is a euphoric almost 'tipsy' effect on the brain causing poor judgement , over confidence, eventually unable to perform basic tasks,etc......
On the video the subject is almost giddy like a stoner as the air thins & he confidently identifies playing cards /objects/ basic math.
As the air got thinner he could not figure out basic shapes nor do simple math(he was asked to solve 8 minus 3 & he answered '4' confidently).
Eventually the tester began to plead with the subject that his air was low & to simply turn on his oxygen switch:
The tester pleads repeatedly: "Turn on your switch or we will die. Reach over & turn on your switch or we'll all die. Just flip your switch or you'll die".......& so on.
The subject simply 'mumbles' incoherently & is unable to turn on his oxygen to save his life when the Tester is pleading with him to turn it on.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:55 pm to Lsut81
quote:
is that very Sr pilots will often pre-program events in case of emergency...
That is why I beleive many pilots are now leaning towards mechanical failure
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:56 pm to moneyg
quote:I'm not sure what you mean.
Your family member has changed his story.
Last night was the first time I asked him about speculation that the reported aircraft behavior is consistent with pilots handling an emergency.
He said that the reported behaviors of the aircraft are inconsistent with its pre-programmed emergency procedures.
ETA: he gave me the impression that those computerized emergency procedures are the same for every 777, programmed by Boeing.
This post was edited on 3/20/14 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:58 pm to MountainTiger
quote:
I think the fact that the plane turned before that last contact pretty much blows a hole in that theory.
Yep. If the reports about the turn before last contact are true, then the theory of something on board failing can be cancelled out.
No accidental depressure, no fire, no electrical failure.
This is 100 percent on purpose if the turn before contact is true.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:59 pm to austintigerdad
quote:
I'm not sure what you mean.
Last night was the first time I asked him about speculation that the reported aircraft behavior is consistent with pilots handling an emergency.
He said that the reported behaviors of the aircraft are inconsistent with its pre-programmed emergency procedures.
The other day you posted this...
quote:
horseshite.
A family member who is a 777 captain shared at least one personal experience that sounds horrifyingly similar to the fire scenario that's being explored.
In this particular case, he was lucky and smart enough to isolate and shut down the panel where smoke was detected before things got out of hand.
But he had to stop his less experienced first officer from taking an action that could very well have downed the plane.
Were you not insinuating that mechanical failure was likely...based on his personal experience?
Posted on 3/20/14 at 4:00 pm to Napoleon
quote:
Yes, twelve minutes before the last contact with ATC.
Also both pilots can see a course change with auto pilot on their display. So either one was down or they both knew.
But that flight plan was set before they made the last sign off.
I've heard now two different versions so I'm asking for clarification from anyone that knows (if such a person exists). I've heard that the turn was programmed into the auto-pilot before final contact but the turn wasn't made until afterwards. I've also heard that they had already executed the turn when final contact was made.
The reason I think this is important is that if the former, an emergency could have happened after final contact that caused them to execute the turn to find an alternate landing site. This emergency could also have knocked out communications thus no distress call back to KL ATC. If the latter, clearly there was no emergency because they'd have reported it to KL ATC during the handoff.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 4:00 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
That is why I beleive many pilots are now leaning towards mechanical failure
Its interesting, but again... Someone has to initiate that turn, so they would know there is an emergency.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 4:02 pm to MountainTiger
quote:
I've heard now two different versions so I'm asking for clarification from anyone that knows (if such a person exists). I've heard that the turn was programmed into the auto-pilot before final contact but the turn wasn't made until afterwards.
the turn was programmed before last contact, but believed to be after last contact (almost during per CNN)
Posted on 3/20/14 at 4:02 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
Has it been discussed in this thread that the plane was programmed to make the turn it made? I've seen that reported recently.
How do we know this was programmed and not done manually?
Posted on 3/20/14 at 4:03 pm to moneyg
quote:No, I said earlier that I was inclined to believe the mechanical failure / electrical fire scenario.
Were you not insinuating that mechanical failure was likely...based on his personal experience?
Then I talked to the family member who flies a 777 for a living, and he suggests that this theory isn't consistent with the reported behavior of the aircraft.
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