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re: NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved this morning (?)
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:33 am to TigerFanatic99
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:33 am to TigerFanatic99
quote:
Who's to say microbes there didn't evolve over the last several million years
Because people who claim to think outside the box can't get out of their own way.
They could never realize that a life form might be able to survive on something other than oxygen.
1
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:35 am to MrLarson
Bad example.
Oxygen is toxic to a great number of life here on Earth.
From deep sea vents to your gut.
Oxygen is toxic to a great number of life here on Earth.
From deep sea vents to your gut.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:36 am to TigerFanatic99
quote:
Am I the only one who thinks it is weird that we always assume that life has to have an Earthlike environment to survive? Who's to say microbes there didn't evolve over the last several million years to thrive under the radiation and less pressurized atmosphere?
I've always thought this as well. Why do we assume "life as we know it" in an oxygen-rich non-hostile atmosphere - when on our own planet there are extremophiles that break down hydrogen sulfide and methane instead of using light energy from the sun, for example? I wouldn't expect them to find a cow on Mars - more like something that lives in the cow's dung.
This post was edited on 9/28/15 at 9:39 am
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:36 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Mars also lacks nitrates in it's soil, which all life that we know of needs.
It's outer space. I expect to find shite that not just we have not seen before, but things that we did not consider could exist. That article doesn't refute my argument that we are WAY too closed minded on what is possible to exist out there. We'll never find life if we keep making these assumptions that it has to live just like us.
LINK
Article talks about how a lichen here on Earth was able to thrive in a Mars environment simulator during a 34 day span here in Earth. The point is that there are extremophiles right here on Earth that can survive there.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:40 am to TigerFanatic99
quote:
Honest to God, how these two droids are still alive is one of space's great mysteries that no one can explain.
They weren't the droids anyone was looking for.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:41 am to 911Moto
Please show me where an oxygen rich environment is stated to be essential to life by a scientist in the field?
Pretty much the only requirement scientists place on life is the ability for liquid water to exist. Hence the giggling around this discovery. The big question isn't the transient water flows on the surface...it's where the water is coming from.
And as for why they focus on water?
Because the biochemistry of the alternatives suck that hard. Water is a very unique and oddball substance that bucks whatever chemical trend you throw at it.
Pretty much the only requirement scientists place on life is the ability for liquid water to exist. Hence the giggling around this discovery. The big question isn't the transient water flows on the surface...it's where the water is coming from.
And as for why they focus on water?
Because the biochemistry of the alternatives suck that hard. Water is a very unique and oddball substance that bucks whatever chemical trend you throw at it.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:43 am to Godfather1
quote:Wasted effort. They are weak-minded.
They weren't the droids anyone was looking for.
Upvoted though for the effort.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:44 am to TigerFanatic99
Exactly, the extremophiles are what to look to for other-world living organism analogs.
Here's the thing though, all those extremophiles are related in how they get their "food" and what composes their "bodies".
So, while the food and bodies can have different compositions than what is on Earth, they are all still very much similar. That helps us recognize what living things are on other planets/moons. That helps us know what is living and what is not. That also helps us realize what can and CANNOT work to sustain life. There shouldn't be any surprises because chemistry and physics follow the same rules no matter what planet/moon you are on. The only time the rules physics and chemistry break down are in stars, but even there there are rules.
Here's the thing though, all those extremophiles are related in how they get their "food" and what composes their "bodies".
So, while the food and bodies can have different compositions than what is on Earth, they are all still very much similar. That helps us recognize what living things are on other planets/moons. That helps us know what is living and what is not. That also helps us realize what can and CANNOT work to sustain life. There shouldn't be any surprises because chemistry and physics follow the same rules no matter what planet/moon you are on. The only time the rules physics and chemistry break down are in stars, but even there there are rules.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:45 am to Volvagia
quote:
I mean the fact that it needs to have a dissolved solvent to stay liquid at Martian temperatures and pressures.
It is kind of a moot point celebrating water and it's implications for life if it is running at 20+% salinity.
Life may find a way, but there is a limit to how stacked a deck you can expect it to fight.
Right. And water is tied up in lots of other rock-forming minerals as well, besides salt. Like gypsum and barite.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:48 am to TigerFanatic99
quote:
It's outer space. I expect to find shite that not just we have not seen before, but things that we did not consider could exist. That article doesn't refute my argument that we are WAY too closed minded on what is possible to exist out there. We'll never find life if we keep making these assumptions that it has to live just like us.
LINK
Article talks about how a lichen here on Earth was able to thrive in a Mars environment simulator during a 34 day span here in Earth. The point is that there are extremophiles right here on Earth that can survive there.
Once again, never said it was impossible, just improbable. You do know the difference between those two words, right? And the scientists who are looking for life out there also recognize that it's entirely possible that there is life that does not conform to any of the norms or standards we see from life on earth.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:51 am to TigerFanatic99
Well it's not really weird, it's just all we can go on. Otherwise, that's like saying, "there probably life out there. We have no idea what form it may take, how it may work, or where you should look, but it may be there."
That's why we look for what we are familiar with. We only know life can work in very specific ways because we literally only have one sample to work with, Earth.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:54 am to SundayFunday
quote:
Well it's not really weird, it's just all we can go on. Otherwise, that's like saying, "there probably life out there. We have no idea what form it may take, how it may work, or where you should look, but it may be there."
That's why we look for what we are familiar with. We only know life can work in very specific ways because we literally only have one sample to work with, Earth.
Bingo. And if you think about it, we're looking for a needle in a haystack that's literally millions of miles away. It only makes sense that the first thing we look for when it comes to trying to find life is those things that we know are indicators of life.
For the record, I'd say there's got to be some form of life out there somewhere. I'm just doubtful we'll find any on Mars.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:54 am to SundayFunday
quote:
That's why we look for what we are familiar with. We only know life can work in very specific ways because we literally only have one sample to work with, Earth.
But there are rules that energy energy creation transfer and exchange must follow. And there are only a few ways to exploit that.
That's where you determine what life is, in that aspect of energy usage.
Everything is related. It won't be that different. It won't be unrecognizable.
This post was edited on 9/28/15 at 9:55 am
Posted on 9/28/15 at 9:57 am to TigerFanatic99
Thrive?
No it didn't. Either literally or figuratively.
Read up on the experiment
Survive, yes.
Have ability to conduct life sustaining reactions....well one group was able to.
Ability to thrive and proliferate.....ehhhhhhhh
No it didn't. Either literally or figuratively.
Read up on the experiment
Survive, yes.
Have ability to conduct life sustaining reactions....well one group was able to.
Ability to thrive and proliferate.....ehhhhhhhh
Posted on 9/28/15 at 10:03 am to Volvagia
quote:
Please show me where an oxygen rich environment is stated to be essential to life by a scientist in the field
Please show me where I defined "we" as "a scientist in the field."
I'm obviously speaking of the general public.Posted on 9/28/15 at 10:09 am to 911Moto
Considering you originally said that you thought it was odd that people thought that, I assumed it was implicit.
Otherwise the statement is "I always thought it was weird that people who didn't know what they are talking about didn't know what they are talking about."
Hell, I'm better informed than most and even I dropped on the ball in an earlier thread on this issue. I can only imagine what someone who follows the Kardashians and thinks the seasons are from how close we are to the sun believes.
Otherwise the statement is "I always thought it was weird that people who didn't know what they are talking about didn't know what they are talking about."
Hell, I'm better informed than most and even I dropped on the ball in an earlier thread on this issue. I can only imagine what someone who follows the Kardashians and thinks the seasons are from how close we are to the sun believes.
This post was edited on 9/28/15 at 10:10 am
Posted on 9/28/15 at 10:11 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
For the record, I'd say there's got to be some form of life out there somewhere. I'm just doubtful we'll find any on Mars.
Mars is naturally producing methane though. We know for a concrete fact that the planet is dead, so we don't have any idea how the planet is producing it. There is one other option though: life. I'm not ready to conclude that Mars has no life on it.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 10:24 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Mars is naturally producing methane though. We know for a concrete fact that the planet is dead, so we don't have any idea how the planet is producing it. There is one other option though: life. I'm not ready to conclude that Mars has no life on it.
Err...methane is a volcanic gas. Mars has volcanoes.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 10:27 am to Pectus
Is there a link to the live broadcast??
Posted on 9/28/15 at 10:35 am to Phil A Sheo
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