re: MSRP vs Dealer Best Offer

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You really think they are really gonna show you a real invoice?

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Of course they will. They will show you the dealer invoice, what they won't show you is the holdbacks and manufacturer to dealer rebates they receive. This isn't that difficult.

There are three figures to consider when buying a new car.

MSRP
Dealer invoice
Dealer true cost which is dealer invoice - holdbacks - manufacturer to dealer rebates.

Holdbacks vary from dealer to dealer and are based on the volume of cars sold by each dealer. Obviously a dealer that sells a thousand F150s a year is going to get a bigger holdout then the dealership that sells 100 a year.

Manufacturer to dealer rebates are pretty standard , but vary as to the time of year. At ehe end of the calendar year bigger rebates are offered on current year models to get them gone so dealers can buy next year models.

MSRP of course is easy to figure out, Just look in the window.

Dealer invoice , the dealers will often show it to you if you ask. Why wouldn't they since MOST customers are not aware that dealer invoice is NOT THE PRICE THE DEALER PAID FOR THE CAR (obviously YOU aren't aware of that)

Holdbacks are a little harder to figure, really all you can do is do a little research on the internet and figure a baseline to build your offer on

Manufacturer to dealer incentives are usually made known to the public, we see them all the time "Save $10K on a 2017 F150 this week" sorta thing. So , a customer usually knows what they are too, and again some of them are not exactly advertised, but a little sleuthing on the Google can figure it out.

SO yes, why wouldn't a dealer show you the dealer invoice when that is NOT what they paid, In most cases they have paid around 10% less than dealer invoice. which means if you pay 3-5% above dealer invoice they are making 13-15% profit on a vehicle, which they would be fine with , any dealer would take a 13% profit on every vehicle on their lot all day long.

This isn't rocket science folks.