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re: More strikes ahead? Teachers say they love their jobs but can't pay their bills, poll show
Posted on 1/25/19 at 12:00 pm to oogabooga68
Posted on 1/25/19 at 12:00 pm to oogabooga68
quote:
Not to get off track, but it certainly is a partisan issue.
One side has been in charge of the education for quite some time.
I'm making an assumption as to what side you are referring to, and I think it's a safe one...but you do realize President George W. Bush signed No Child Left Behind into law?
No Child Left Behind Act
quote:
The bill passed in the Congress with bipartisan support
I think the majority of the issues spoken of in this thread are a result of this act.
This post was edited on 1/25/19 at 12:04 pm
1
Posted on 1/25/19 at 12:32 pm to RogerTheShrubber
What you make means nothing if you don’t balance it with cost of living.
If a teacher in Laredo makes the same as a teacher in San Francisco, there’s an issue of quality of living. You can live like a king near the border for the cost of a small apartment in SF.
If a teacher in Laredo makes the same as a teacher in San Francisco, there’s an issue of quality of living. You can live like a king near the border for the cost of a small apartment in SF.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 12:36 pm to Jvalhenson
quote:
This is true....my school dismisses at 2:30 but we start at 6:45. But folks like to pick and choose their "facts" on both sides to fit their argument.
You have to realize that most of the people in this thread no little to nothing about the profession. Someone posted earlier that he had been in a classroom twice...and followed it up with a lengthy post about the job of a teacher.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 12:43 pm to TexasTiger08
quote:
What you make means nothing if you don’t balance it with cost of living.
Sure. But the average teacher makes as much as their peers and work less. Average base salary here is 62k (with a high CoL) and many teachers have summers to work and supplement income.
Now starting pay fir teachers ain't great but it's not unreasonable and it increases rather quickly
Posted on 1/25/19 at 12:49 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
starting pay fir teachers ain't great but it's not unreasonable and it increases rather quickly
No...no it doesn’t.
This whole thread centers around whether teachers should be paid more. Just like any job, it’s not clear cut. Just like any job, there’s a helluva lot more to it than meets the eye.
For some reason, people on this board try to paint it black and white.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 12:52 pm to Baers Foot
quote:
but you do realize President George W. Bush signed No Child Left Behind into law?
Sure do and sorry, Bush was more CenterLeft than Right on many issues.
Education in American has been DOMINATED by the Democrats and the destruction of our Public Schools is a direct result of their clueless stewardship....sorry.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 12:56 pm to LetsBreal
quote:
Wal-Mart truck drivers make 90k....teachers prepare children for the world and future of our country and make half that....
Perhaps if you had a better economics teacher you'd understand why that's the case.
The pool of people who are capable and willing to drive a truck across the country on a regular basis <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< the pool of people who are willing to teach
This post was edited on 1/25/19 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 1/25/19 at 1:01 pm to TexasTiger08
quote:
No...no it doesn’t.
This whole thread centers around whether teachers should be paid more. Just like any job, it’s not clear cut. Just like any job, there’s a helluva lot more to it than meets the eye.
For some reason, people on this board try to paint it black and white.
Sure. You're absolutely convinced they are underpaid.
Welcome to economics, unions and government employment.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 1:03 pm to oogabooga68
quote:
Sure do and sorry, Bush was more CenterLeft than Right on many issues.
Education in American has been DOMINATED by the Democrats and the destruction of our Public Schools is a direct result of their clueless stewardship....sorry.
Oh shite, my apologies. I see you frequent the poli board and for that reason I am out.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 1:04 pm to slackster
quote:
Perhaps if you had a better economics teacher you'd understand why that's the case.
Absolutely.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 1:11 pm to TexasTiger08
quote:
You have to realize that most of the people in this thread no little to nothing about the profession
For the sake of the children, I hope you're not a teacher either.
quote:
Someone posted earlier that he had been in a classroom twice...and followed it up with a lengthy post about the job of a teacher.
Pretty sure he was saying he taught in two different spurts.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 1:14 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Absolutely.
If teachers want to earn more, they should make increase the standards for teachers. The economics of the situation make it pretty clear that one of two things is true:
A) Teaching can't be that hard if so many people are willing to do it for such "low" pay
B) The pay is actually pretty solid.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 1:23 pm to slackster
oh man that is funny and is exactly what I was talking about. The standards for teachers has been increased numerous times over the past several years.....but the pay has remained pretty much the same. Required test scores have gone up....all daily requirements have increased.....parent and admin support is vanishing....but the pay remains the same. That is the bulk of the complaints that folks want to ignore.....the job of being a teacher is getting more and more difficult every year yet the pay stays the same. Again as I have said I am not one that screams about being underpaid I live an awesome life but lets keep the discussion focused on what the bulk of the complaints actually are and keep the facts correct. What you say teachers need to have happen to increase pay is already happening every year and has been for quite some time now....so you are essentially saying that you think teachers already deserve more pay bc what you say needs to happen already has ha.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 1:27 pm to Jvalhenson
quote:
but the pay has remained pretty much the same.
It's a government job with little competition and union problems.
Basic economics.
This post was edited on 1/25/19 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 1/25/19 at 1:28 pm to Jvalhenson
Have any of you teachers ever thought about this:
1) Your salary moves into the range of entry-level engineering, scientists, etc.
2) A person with a STEM degree applies to be a teacher because they would qualify easily.
3) Teachers with generic teaching degrees get pushed out.
4) Same teachers get mad that now they have no job.
1) Your salary moves into the range of entry-level engineering, scientists, etc.
2) A person with a STEM degree applies to be a teacher because they would qualify easily.
3) Teachers with generic teaching degrees get pushed out.
4) Same teachers get mad that now they have no job.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 1:35 pm to RogerTheShrubber
so you would not complain if your responsibilities increased drastically....not a minor task here and there but drastic increases...yet your pay stayed the same. As so many like to say here....GTFO with that nonsense you are not being sincere in the discussion. Like I said I do not feel underpaid.....but I fully understand why some do....and it is for the exact reason anyone in any job would feel that way. The job you signed up for for the pay you knew going in was changed on you without any additional compensation. Again if you want to actually have a legitimate conversation you have to represent the facts correctly and in context...which so many of you refuse to do and try to spin it...but this is the OT so have at it.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 1:49 pm to 50_Tiger
That certainly happens but it will not be to any significant extent. I do not have a teaching degree at first...I do have 2 masters in education now but my undergrad degrees have nothing to do with but they qualify me for math, science, and history endorsements(engineering background) and I chose to go into education bc I wanted to coach, help young people etc and have all the time off which as I have said is significant. I am not one of the "those who can't teach" people. I can do dern near anything I decide to do. Grandpa and Dad were welders and pipefitters and I learned all that from them growing up. I worked construction all through college I can build have built anything from a table to a house. I decided to be a teacher but it is what I decided I wanted to do....not bc of money. Lets say the money was to increase to starting salary of 75K for 1st year roughly what your average first year engineer maybe...close to it anyways. So how many first year engineers are going to want to go work in a school teaching a bunch of disrespectful kids, dealing with mad unreasonable parents, have a defined ceiling the know they can never earn more than, with admin that only supports them when it suits them for a job that gets the little to no respect or status in the community vs how many are going to go into their degree field for the same money starting out, almost unlimited ceiling depending on what they produce, not have to deal with kids or parents(yes I understand bosses and clients can be just as bad but they simply are not perceived that way in the mind of a 22-24 year old college graduate), be well respected in the community etc? The answer not to dern many.....unless the pay was just get astronomical noone is going into teaching for the money....they go into teaching bc that is what they want to do. All most of them(us) want now is to compensated in a way that matches the way the requirements have already increased. As someone else said...teachers do not have a "boss" to go ask for a raise or threaten to leave or whatever. The only way teachers get a raise is to make noise in the public so there is a policy change by the state and/or district.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 2:00 pm to Jvalhenson
quote:
That certainly happens but it will not be to any significant extent. I do not have a teaching degree at first...I do have 2 masters in education now but my undergrad degrees have nothing to do with but they qualify me for math, science, and history endorsements(engineering background) and I chose to go into education bc I wanted to coach, help young people etc and have all the time off which as I have said is significant. I am not one of the "those who can't teach" people. I can do dern near anything I decide to do. Grandpa and Dad were welders and pipefitters and I learned all that from them growing up. I worked construction all through college I can build have built anything from a table to a house. I decided to be a teacher but it is what I decided I wanted to do....not bc of money. Lets say the money was to increase to starting salary of 75K for 1st year roughly what your average first year engineer maybe...close to it anyways. So how many first year engineers are going to want to go work in a school teaching a bunch of disrespectful kids, dealing with mad unreasonable parents, have a defined ceiling the know they can never earn more than, with admin that only supports them when it suits them for a job that gets the little to no respect or status in the community vs how many are going to go into their degree field for the same money starting out, almost unlimited ceiling depending on what they produce, not have to deal with kids or parents(yes I understand bosses and clients can be just as bad but they simply are not perceived that way in the mind of a 22-24 year old college graduate), be well respected in the community etc? The answer not to dern many.....unless the pay was just get astronomical noone is going into teaching for the money....they go into teaching bc that is what they want to do. All most of them(us) want now is to compensated in a way that matches the way the requirements have already increased. As someone else said...teachers do not have a "boss" to go ask for a raise or threaten to leave or whatever. The only way teachers get a raise is to make noise in the public so there is a policy change by the state and/or district.
From your post, I gather you are one of the "great" teachers in the system. Ones that actually care about their craft and are very passionate about it.
I think you are underrating professional issues in the non-classroom workplace.
Using my own experiences because I can't speak for others but these are situations I have had to overcome in the last quarter:
1) Project Managers who over promise our customer.
2) Not enough engineers for projects.
3) Projects in which there is no documentation. You are the R&D and must create the numerous documents as you move along the project.
4) Strict time schedules
5) Continuous Education. Not sure about teachers but in most STEM fields you have to continue to stay on top of everything in the industry, which for me right now is Cloud NR 5G and Classical NR 5G. Both require certifications. Plus 3GPP Certification in Rel 15. This is not some walk in the park.
6) Work is 24/7. You may be home, but since you work for a global company, some bloke in France might be lighting your phone up at 3 in the morning.
Point is, we all have shitty things about our jobs. You can't use that as a negotiating tactic.
Posted on 1/25/19 at 2:11 pm to 50_Tiger
I addressed that. Very clearly said bosses clients etc are a pain too.......but how many 24 year old aspiring engineers know this or realize how significant it will be? Not very many.....but they can all understand how irritating a mouthy 12 year old is. You are speaking from the realm of someone who has "been there done that" the problem is someone going into teaching or engineering or any other job has not been there and done that. They dont know jack. With teaching there are no negotiating tactics at all except make enough noise that a policy is changed so not sure why you mention that. In other fields you can ask for a raise, change companies, negotiate starting salaries etc. Teachers do not have those options without leaving the profession. Yes I am aware there are trade off to all that with pension etc and again I am not saying we are underpaid just talking about your thoughts on say engineers taking teaching jobs. It is just not going to happen very often even if money was equal based on the public perception of each job. That 24 year old deciding between engineering and teaching is going to take the engineering job 9 of 10 times bc they have no clue about the day to day stuff you are talking about....but they know full well how irritating there little brother was and they know how people think of teachers vs how they think of engineers.
so what about those engineers that are sick of the been done that you are talking about.....so they have been an engineer for say 10 years....by then they are making well over 100K if they are worth a dern but that one in 10 that went into education is only making 82K which is about what the yearly step increases would come out to if they started at 75.....how many of those career engineers are going to take that 20+k pay cut? Even if some do how many stick with it beyond say 3 years of having such a drastic lifesyle change while their old buddies are still making much more. Even if the pay increased to match the engineers increase(yea right) how many are going to make a lateral move just to change headaches and throw off their entire retirement plans etc? Again the answer is most likely not very many. It is just a totally different mindset to be a teacher. Regardless of the money....it is a job you truly have to want to do. That is why teacher "burnout" around 5 years is so high. People go into it for the summers off and quickly realize it is not all about that and they end up selling real estate(not knocking that only say that bc 3 teachers that I know very well have quit in the past year and all 3 sell real estate now.)
so what about those engineers that are sick of the been done that you are talking about.....so they have been an engineer for say 10 years....by then they are making well over 100K if they are worth a dern but that one in 10 that went into education is only making 82K which is about what the yearly step increases would come out to if they started at 75.....how many of those career engineers are going to take that 20+k pay cut? Even if some do how many stick with it beyond say 3 years of having such a drastic lifesyle change while their old buddies are still making much more. Even if the pay increased to match the engineers increase(yea right) how many are going to make a lateral move just to change headaches and throw off their entire retirement plans etc? Again the answer is most likely not very many. It is just a totally different mindset to be a teacher. Regardless of the money....it is a job you truly have to want to do. That is why teacher "burnout" around 5 years is so high. People go into it for the summers off and quickly realize it is not all about that and they end up selling real estate(not knocking that only say that bc 3 teachers that I know very well have quit in the past year and all 3 sell real estate now.)
This post was edited on 1/25/19 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 1/25/19 at 2:11 pm to TexasTiger08
quote:
Wow. Then you proceed to try and tell people how easy it is?
Actually was I said was that it’s not hard. Reading comprehension and recall. Learn it.
quote:
Spoken like a true unskilled laborer
Wow. 1. You don’t know anything about me other than what I’ve stated but do continue to project. Tells me a lot about you 2. So only skilled laborers opinions matter and should be taken seriously. How very superior of you. Classic symptom of an insecure person too.
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