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re: Millennials make more money than any other gen. did at their age, but are way less wealthy
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:10 am to 777Tiger
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:10 am to 777Tiger
quote:
, a lot of the values that they held/practiced stuck with me
Same. I am frugal, I don't need much. I have weaknesses though (Camera gear)
0
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:10 am to The Eric
TBH both things are true
- Living somewhere where there is lucrative work on a large scale and offers even decent quality of life (legitimately good public schools, safety, etc.) is more expensive than ever. I'm not talking about Manhattan, I'm talking about homes in a good suburb of Atlanta starting at 400/500k. School is legitimately expensive, there are very few options to just work hard and rise or get a generic degree and excel. Things are specialized and the adage (fed by boomers) of "go anywhere and get a degree, it doesn't matter" is increasingly bad advice.
- But, the standards are increasing. When I was a kid in an upper middle class family, we didn't travel every fall/spring break. We certainly didn't travel internationally or to exotic locales. My mom had a van. My dad had a Buick. Now, legitimately middle class people shop at Whole Foods, take grand trips, have flagship electronics, get Starbucks every morning, etc. The avocado toast thing is dumb, but across the board our culture has made excess the norm.
- Living somewhere where there is lucrative work on a large scale and offers even decent quality of life (legitimately good public schools, safety, etc.) is more expensive than ever. I'm not talking about Manhattan, I'm talking about homes in a good suburb of Atlanta starting at 400/500k. School is legitimately expensive, there are very few options to just work hard and rise or get a generic degree and excel. Things are specialized and the adage (fed by boomers) of "go anywhere and get a degree, it doesn't matter" is increasingly bad advice.
- But, the standards are increasing. When I was a kid in an upper middle class family, we didn't travel every fall/spring break. We certainly didn't travel internationally or to exotic locales. My mom had a van. My dad had a Buick. Now, legitimately middle class people shop at Whole Foods, take grand trips, have flagship electronics, get Starbucks every morning, etc. The avocado toast thing is dumb, but across the board our culture has made excess the norm.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:10 am to wutangfinancial
quote:what year is it?
We have just experienced a 20 year,
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:11 am to wutangfinancial
quote:
We have just experienced a 20 year, Federally protected bull market in domestic equities
Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered
-PaulAllen Esquire
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:12 am to Pettifogger
quote:
- But, the standards are increasing. When I was a kid in an upper middle class family, we didn't travel every fall/spring break. We certainly didn't travel internationally or to exotic locales. My mom had a van. My dad had a Buick. Now, legitimately middle class people shop at Whole Foods, take grand trips, have flagship electronics, get Starbucks every morning, etc. The avocado toast thing is dumb, but across the board our culture has made excess the norm.
Get away from some of this.
With more remote work, people are moving farther from the cities away from all of this bullshite. If your employer doesn't mind, I recommend considering it.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:13 am to 777Tiger
quote:
my parents were depression era kids, they ended up up making quite a good life for themselves and amassed considerable wealth but maintained a relatively frugal lifestyle, a lot of the values that they held/practiced stuck with me, there's only so much you can do as a parent, the kid has to do their part too
Same except my parents are younger.
This post was edited on 10/12/21 at 10:14 am
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:13 am to Packer
quote:
don't forget prioritization, discipline, and deferred gratification
Who is supposed to teach them these things?
I am in my early 40’s, which puts me somewhere between Gen Y and Millennial. None of these things were taught to me as a child in school. By the time “economics” was removed from the school schedule the year previous to mine and I had “civics” one year before it was removed. What generation was in charge of the school system when I was a child? Who made those decisions? It wasn’t us.
Both of my parents worked their asses off full time to get by and it seemed that as they earned more money we could afford progressively less. Those slightly older than my parents seemed to be fine paying off houses and raising families with a 30 year career as a bag boy at the Safeway. Some of those people are still in the workforce now, and some of them are still alive collecting a monthly pension at the age of 912. Blaming millennials and gen z for this problem is looking in the wrong direction.
A good example of how things have changed:
When the Simpsons premiered in the 90’s the family represented a lower middle class family, now they represent a relatively rich one.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:14 am to TDTOM
Because the narrative regarding millenials is that they’re only poor because they’re addicted to luxury goods, degrees in lesbian dance therapy, or instant gratification. While that narrative has a hint of truth, it’s purposely misleading to distract from real socio-economic issues which are happening that are destroying the middle class in this country and trapping millions in poverty. Wage stagnation is real. Exploding tuition, housing, and healthcare costs are real. While some of the damage is self-inflicted (children out of wedlock, low marriage rates, high divorce rates, going to college more than necessary), a lot of it is either completely beyond their control or greatly influenced by parenting, HR departments, or government schools.
The narrative is a bad one because it allows good folks to ignore the very real economic and demographic timebomb that we’re sitting on which needs to be fixed. Government’s intrusions into healthcare, housing, and student loans are bankrupting a generation and must be stopped or else. Combined with Covid’s destruction of small businesses and social media, amazon, and search engine collusion to censor competition, we are looking at the end of economic mobility in America through traditional means. This is a much more serious issue than avocado toast.
The narrative is a bad one because it allows good folks to ignore the very real economic and demographic timebomb that we’re sitting on which needs to be fixed. Government’s intrusions into healthcare, housing, and student loans are bankrupting a generation and must be stopped or else. Combined with Covid’s destruction of small businesses and social media, amazon, and search engine collusion to censor competition, we are looking at the end of economic mobility in America through traditional means. This is a much more serious issue than avocado toast.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:14 am to SuperSaint
quote:
Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered
thought that was "pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered?"
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:15 am to Pettifogger
quote:i think a lot of people don't fully appreciate the general downward trend of public schools & the general culture of this country.
- Living somewhere where there is lucrative work on a large scale and offers even decent quality of life (legitimately good public schools, safety, etc.) is more expensive than ever. I'm not talking about Manhattan, I'm talking about homes in a good suburb of Atlanta starting at 400/500k.
what was a nice enough suburb 30 years ago, full of affordable starter homes and a good school system, is now full of section 8 trash.
most people on here will acknowledge the demographic tidal wave but fail to see the link between it and the housing market.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:15 am to goofball
quote:
Get away from some of this.
With more remote work, people are moving farther from the cities away from all of this bullshite. If your employer doesn't mind, I recommend considering it.
Oh I agree, but most people aren't there yet. My great hope (well one) is that a working society less tethered to the office will allow the rebirth of small towns, especially in the Southeast where nice small towns are almost non-existent.
I've always wondered how there are well-to-do working people in small NE towns 100 miles from a business hub.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:17 am to TDTOM
Same here. My dad was born in 1943, so technically not a Boomer, but we worked hard and saved and lived fairly frugally.
Now my brother is a patent attorney that also tutors on the side. Has frick you type money and he drives a 1998 model truck.
I am not as frugal, but we are all doing very well.
Now my brother is a patent attorney that also tutors on the side. Has frick you type money and he drives a 1998 model truck.
I am not as frugal, but we are all doing very well.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:17 am to RockinDood
quote:
When the Simpsons premiered in the 90’s the family represented a lower middle class family
Nah, none of us grew up in a house like that.
When I was in HS (late 70's and early 80's) we always talked about these shows on TV and how in the hell did people afford homes like that. My area was solidly middle class and having a home like that on a single salary was laughable.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:18 am to Pettifogger
quote:
My great hope (well one) is that a working society less tethered to the office will allow the rebirth of small towns, especially in the Southeast where nice small towns are almost non-existent.
i can't see this actually happening. most people are all talk when it comes to actually leaving their metro area.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:19 am to goofball
quote:
Get away from some of this.
This is where people get lost. They will never give up luxury or comfort once attained.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:19 am to Pettifogger
quote:
My great hope (well one) is that a working society less tethered to the office will allow the rebirth of small towns, especially in the Southeast where nice small towns are almost non-existent.
Doubtful. The millennials that complain about rent will not move out of the city.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:20 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
i think a lot of people don't fully appreciate the general downward trend of public schools & the general culture of this country.
what was a nice enough suburb 30 years ago, full of affordable starter homes and a good school system, is now full of section 8 trash.
most people on here will acknowledge the demographic tidal wave but fail to see the link between it and the housing market.
Cities and suburban areas are slammed with multi-family that was "luxury" multifamily when built 15 years ago and is now complete S8.
There is a lot of rhetoric about the disappearing middle class, but it's usually half-truths. The reality is that "lower classes" have and do the things I discuss (minus the 500k homes). So in reality they're enjoying a much higher standard of living. They're the new middle class.
But if you're responsible, family-oriented and of modest means, that leaves you in a terrible spot. You can either live somewhere rural with few economic opportunities but where your wage can get you a decent home and life that aligns with your values and character. But you'll probably have shitty schools, be around a lot of people who don't share those values, etc.
Or you can live in the burbs in the shittier neighborhoods, and have the same issues.
Or you can graduate to the "upper middle class" and become part of the problem, so I hear. Means you'll probably need specialized education and to overleverage yourself.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:20 am to Pechon
quote:
Buying stupid shite and wasting tuition on a soft major tends to do that.
True...but a 150% increase in tuition costs over the last 20 years have been tough on the ones getting solid majors, too.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:21 am to GreatLakesTiger24
Growing up in the 70s, no one had money to waste. We were still happy, but much less materialistic. Of course there wasn't a bunch of stuff to spend money on, a car and house and vacations were about it. Back then, no one would have imagined paying $300/month for 4 cell phones, or hundreds of dollars/week eating out, or spending hundreds of dollars/months on kids sporting activities.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 10:22 am to RockinDood
quote:
I am in my early 40’s, which puts me somewhere between Gen Y and Millennial. None of these things were taught to me as a child in school. By the time “economics” was removed from the school schedule the year previous to mine and I had “civics” one year before it was removed. What generation was in charge of the school system when I was a child? Who made those decisions? It wasn’t us.
Those things weren't taught to me in school either. They were taught by parents and by the fact that we just didn't have much when I was growing up. Everything was delayed gratification.
Honestly, where we failed as boomers was by giving our kids too much because we wished we had it as kids. We should have made them do without a lot more and earn more. However, I think most of our kids now are the grown up millennials who are fairly successful now. I see the ones even younger than that as the ones who are really whiny now.
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