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re: Men, "traditional masculinity" is harmful to you

Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:23 pm to
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138891 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:23 pm to
quote:

What is the alleged purpose of the article?

To say that "science" backs the continuing justification of forcing men to believe they're responsible for all the ills of the world.
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
37515 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:30 pm to
Btw is there any good link between high competitiveness and aggression and suicide? It seems like people who kill themselves are probably more likely to have lower than normal levels of those traits.

Aggression and violence? Sure that seems obvious- but it would only be a component of violent behavior, not the causation.
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86138 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:32 pm to
quote:

Sorry, but this is simply another attempt at social engineering.


Not sure why you are apologizing

Psychology seems like, at its core, is social engineering.
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
40888 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:33 pm to
Does anyone actually put a lot of credence into the psychiatry/psychology industries? They are one step above voodoo.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138891 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

Not sure why you are apologizing

Psychology seems like, at its core, is social engineering.


I don't think it's about social engineering per se. I think it's more about understanding how the brain works and helping people to find the optimal psychological function that best suits each individual. This "study" doesn't seem to be doing that.
This post was edited on 1/10/19 at 1:39 pm
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86138 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

To say that "science" backs the continuing justification of forcing men to believe they're responsible for all the ills of the world.




they have the same type of guidelines for women and girls too
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138891 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

they have the same type of guidelines for women and girls too


Ok. Show them.
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86138 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:40 pm to
quote:

I think it's more about understanding how the brain works and helping people to find the optimal psychological function that best suits each individual. This "study" doesn't seem to be doing that.



What study are you talking about?

Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86138 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:41 pm to
quote:

Ok. Show them.


LINK

Here are the men guidelines with all references as well

LINK
Posted by El Magnifico
La casa de tu mamá
Member since Jan 2014
7017 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:41 pm to
Gee, a report from soy boys saying that not being a pussy cuck is harmful to you. Who would have thought.
Posted by 225Tyga
Member since Oct 2013
19707 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:45 pm to
quote:

Salmon


Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138891 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:46 pm to
Yeah, the women's guidelines are basically telling them that despite huge societal advancements, they're still victims. What a clown show
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138891 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:47 pm to
quote:

What study are you talking about?


These "guidelines"
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86138 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:51 pm to
The guidelines are very similar to the men's guidelines.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138891 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

The guidelines are very similar to the men's guidelines.


Yeah, they're both garbage
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86138 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 2:08 pm to
Become a psychologist and write your own.

Make millions by helping people.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138891 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 2:17 pm to
You must believe pretty strongly in this stuff. You're not taking the criticism very well. We'll pray for you.
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86138 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 2:19 pm to
The only thing that I have demonstrated strong belief in is actually reading source material before commenting on things.
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
37515 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 2:27 pm to
From your link:

quote:

Although many of these changes have resulted in increased equality, opportunity, and quality of life, girls and women are also at risk for a variety of health concerns and life stresses (National Healthcare Disparities Report, 2005).


Women in the west generally seem to have more opportunity. They live longer. They suffer less violence. They are more likely to graduate from college or graduate school. They are less likely to be homeless. They are less likely to commit suicide.

quote:

Stressors in the lives of women and girls include interpersonal victimization and violence, unrealistic media images of girls and women, discrimination and oppression, devaluation, limited economic resources, role overload, relationship disruptions, and work inequities.


None of that is female specific but when you read gender studies textbooks or this article you would believe that was the case.

Women suffer less violence and victimization is mostly the formation of social standing in hierarchies which women largely control and stress other women. Discrimination and oppression is nebulous nonsense. The larger part of social sciences universities are debateably devoted to advancing already advantaged women over relatively disadvantaged men. Role overload and work inequities are present for almost everyone in some instances and when you consider many of the trade offs (longer hours worked, increased risk of harm or death) arguably affect men more than women.

quote:

Violence against girls and women is often predicated in sexism, racism, classism, and homophobia (Glick & Fiske, 1997; Koss, Heisi & Russo, 1994; West, 2002)


Nebulous intersectionality nonsense which appears to falsely categorize women as disadvantaged compared to men. And when you look at the disadvantages experienced by minorities you have to note that (as in the case with Caucasians) more advantages experienced on net by women than men with respect to violence, imprisonment, and failure to graduate from high school or receive more advanced degrees.

quote:

Salient mental health statistics reveal that women are two times more likely than men to be depressed, and girls are seven times more likely than boys to be depressed (Lewinsohn, Rhode, Seeley, & Baldwin, 2001).


The first real issue they have identified. But this rise seems to be associated with the rise of social media and female on female competition from which people have no reprieve.

quote:

Girls and women are also roughly nine times more likely to have eating disorders than boys and men (Stice & Bearman, 2001; Stice, Burton, & Shaw, 2004). Compared to men, women are two to three times more likely to experience many types of anxiety disorders (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Office on Women's Health, 2001).


Also true but appears to be associated with social media and device accessibility.

quote:

The abuse and violence in our society (e.g., abuse, battering, rape) may contribute to the development of dysfunctional behavior such as eating disorders, depression, anxiety, and suicidal behavior, while discrimination against women and girls of color can result in lowered self-expectations, anxiety, depression, and negative attitudes toward self (Keith, Jackson, & Gary, 2003).


But then they get it intentionally wrong again. As discrimination and violence have fallen the negative behaviors they cite have increased. The authors are too possessed by being ideologues to let go of their narrative and admit the obvious. Western women are the most privileged group of people in the history of mankind. The cause of their emotional distress is not relative oppression.

quote:

Although many psychologists and members of the general public may believe that women's issues in psychology were dealt with and resolved in the 1970s and 1980s, the changing and increasingly complex life experiences of girls and women and the intersection of their gender roles with ethnicity, sexual orientation, ability, SES, etc. demonstrate compelling evidence and need for professional guidance for helping psychologists (a) avoid harm in psychological practice with girls and women; (b) improve research, teaching, consultation, and psychotherapeutic and counseling training and practice; and (c) develop and enhance treatment efforts, research, prevention, teaching, and other areas of practice that will benefit women and girls.


Another poorly considered and weakly defended allegation of intersectionality with women as an oppressed group - in spite of the evidence in support of the opposite.

quote:

In addition, although blatant forms of sexism and racism have decreased over time (Campbell, Schellenberg, & Senn, 1997), researchers have noted the continuing presence of more subtle forms of sexist and racist bias (e.g., ambivalent, symbolic, or unintentional racism/sexism) (Glick & Fiske, 1997; Swim & Cohen, 1997).


Here they slip in microaggressions without pointing out this a terrible concept which doesn't reflect (at the individual or social level) behaviors.
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86138 posts
Posted on 1/10/19 at 2:33 pm to
Damn. You took a lot of time to debate something that I don't necessarily disagree with.

I certainly don't (and never implied) that I agreed with all of their points or ideas.

Most of my comments were simply pointing people to read the actual guidelines, and not some half assed Fox News link.
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