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Message
re: Looking At College Student Loan Debt, Is It Time To Reduce Credit Hour Minimums?
Posted on 3/30/17 at 1:53 pm to LNCHBOX
Posted on 3/30/17 at 1:53 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
You picked those electives. You likely had access to more applicable electives, but chose the easy ones. That's a you problem.
He's a rational actor. Blaming rational decisions on rational actors illustrates the problem, it doesn't refute it. As always, you get what you incentivize.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 1:54 pm
1
Posted on 3/30/17 at 1:55 pm to therick711
Fair enough point.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 1:55 pm to therick711
quote:fify
We aren't a trade school. It's about the pursuit of learning for its own sake. But, by all means, give us some tax payer money that is fully backed without collateral, credit history, or any kind of assurance you have or ever will have the means to pay it back.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 1:56 pm to Sao
Turns college into a trade school?
Hi Bobby Jindal, never thought I would see you posting on this site after destroying the state like you did. But hope you're doing well.
Hi Bobby Jindal, never thought I would see you posting on this site after destroying the state like you did. But hope you're doing well.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 1:58 pm to ell_13
So colleges and universities don't want to invest in producing wage earners because NOT OUR MISSION, yet everyone treats them like they are, in fact, doing that by publicly funding them and subsidizing loans for use at those institutions.
Maybe colleges and universities need to have their priorities re-aligned. If schools had to compete on preparing their students for jobs, I'd bet the curricula would look a lot different at many institutions.
Maybe colleges and universities need to have their priorities re-aligned. If schools had to compete on preparing their students for jobs, I'd bet the curricula would look a lot different at many institutions.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 1:58 pm to YumYum Sauce
quote:
Cut out the mindless electives. I got a business degree and took the following that all counted towards graduating
Beginning Badminton 1
Nutrition for sports and health 3
Beginning golf 1
Sociology 3
Music Lecture 3
Police and Society 3
Criminology 3
Physics and Human Affairs 3
Geology (including lab) 4
Family Science 3
I could go on and on, but that's 27 hours of complete nonsense that was just to get out of the gened requirements.
at an average of $275/credit hour, that's $7425 of complete senseless bullshite.
Thank you for the practical breakdown. This is exactly what I think needs to be looked at and changed. The reallocation of university funds to refocus on expansion or funding of core competencies within on-campus "colleges" would not result in a decrease in student enrollment at all. It would maintain interest, increase educational wellness/prep and further the notion if degrees matter to the outside corporate world today, focus on sending us some kick-arse kids.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:01 pm to Sao
quote:just because you have electives, does not mean you need to take "beginning Badminton" you can take something that elevates your career goals or even apply electives towards a minor. Again the fault is on the student, not the system
This is exactly what I think needs to be looked at and changed.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:02 pm to therick711
quote:The current system doesn't give them an option. It's literally unchecked inflation.
So colleges and universities don't want to invest in producing wage earners because NOT OUR MISSION, yet everyone treats them like they are, in fact, doing that by publicly funding them and subsidizing loans for use at those institutions.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:04 pm to NYCAuburn
Point is, why even bother giving the choice of badminton to reach an arbitrary preparedness number of 120+?
It's Yum's fault he had to get there and the school offered it? Hell no. It's a fluff A for getting over a 3.0 hump. It's a waste of time. It's a waste of money.
It's Yum's fault he had to get there and the school offered it? Hell no. It's a fluff A for getting over a 3.0 hump. It's a waste of time. It's a waste of money.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:05 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:
just because you have electives, does not mean you need to take "beginning Badminton" you can take something that elevates your career goals or even apply electives towards a minor. Again the fault is on the student, not the system
You have the right premise but the wrong conclusion. The system is at fault because it does not grant any incentive to do anything other than what rational actors do. No one cares about what individual classes you take, the completion is key. In the same vein, the minor is worthless. Students are often evaluated more heavily on the classes within their major, so the incentive is to take the easiest electives to focus on their core classes. The blame clearly lies with the system, not the student.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 2:08 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:06 pm to NIH
quote:
They need to stop backing any non-STEM student loans IMO.
this board's boner for STEM is funny.
Those are just the areas our country is falling behind in the world. That's why the government should back them.
ETA:
I was a history major and now getting my MBA
So I'm not some STEM junkie.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 2:07 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:08 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
You can pay for tuition with pre-tax dollars, so why not student loans?
This 100%. Probably won't happen while I'm paying mine off, but seriously this would ease some of the burden
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:08 pm to Sao
quote:
Point is, why even bother giving the choice of badminton to reach an arbitrary preparedness number of 120+?
It's Yum's fault he had to get there and the school offered it? Hell no. It's a fluff A for getting over a 3.0 hump. It's a waste of time. It's a waste of money.
You can't whine about taking a class that had nothing to do with your major when you weren't forced to take it and could have taken something that applied to you in its place.
And if we're being honest, he probably uses info he learned in most of those blowoff classes in his daily life.
There are plenty of trade school and two year programs already for people that don't have the want or need to pay for a full 4 year education. We don't need to change entire curricula because some students chose dumb electives.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:09 pm to shotcaller1
quote:
This 100%. Probably won't happen while I'm paying mine off, but seriously this would ease some of the burden
Making it easier for schools to exact money from their students fixes the wrong problem.
They don't need any more subsidization, trust me. Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:10 pm to therick711
quote:
You have the right premise but the wrong conclusion. The system is at fault because it does not grant any incentive to do anything other than what rational actors do. No one cares about what individual classes you take, the completion is key.
except you can use those electives towards the completion of a minor or 2nd/3rd major etc...
quote:
the minor is worthless.
not really, it isnt looked as a major, thats for sure, but very useful in many situations, but you can also get 2nd majors...
quote:
Students are often evaluated more heavily on the classes within their degree, so the incentive is to take the easiest electives to focus on their core classes. The blame clearly lies with the system, not the student.
Students arent evaluated on their courses at the job level, they are evaluated on what they graduated with. The easiest path route is blamed on the student, they took the path rather than a more useful one.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:11 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
You can't whine about taking a class that had nothing to do with your major when you weren't forced to take it and could have taken something that applied to you in its place.
Many schools make you take electives from a basket where only certain offered courses are allowed. The days of the pure elective are over. So the idea that someone is going to figure out which of chemistry, biology, oceanography, etc. is going to best fit into their Marketing curriculum is stupid.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:12 pm to therick711
quote:
Many schools make you take electives from a basket where only certain offered courses are allowed.
HE could have chose something other than golf or badminton. I know that much for sure.
quote:
So the idea that someone is going to figure out which of chemistry, biology, oceanography, etc. is going to best fit into their Marketing curriculum is stupid.
Just dismissing it as stupid isn't really much of an argument.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:13 pm to therick711
quote:
Many schools make you take electives from a basket where only certain offered courses are allowed
please show them.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:13 pm to LNCHBOX
Sigh... you're forced to get to predetermined graduation cumulative hours, LNCH. What are you missing here? What is preventing Universities parsing the elective hours out, logically determining what is required in the core and basing secondary education efforts on the real goal which is preparedness for the next level?
Do you at lease agree that student enrollment would not be affected by reducing a 4 year degree into 3? The consumer base doesn't change... the money doesn't change. Only the scoot through does.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 2:15 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:
except you can use those electives towards the completion of a minor or 2nd/3rd major etc...
You know better than to point to an extraordinary case when it doesn't apply to the vast majority. Just because something CAN be done does not mean the system incentivizes it being done.
quote:
not really, it isnt looked as a major, thats for sure, but very useful in many situations, but you can also get 2nd majors...
It is very useful in few situations. Again, see above.
quote:
Students arent evaluated on their courses at the job level, they are evaluated on what they graduated with. The easiest path route is blamed on the student, they took the path rather than a more useful one.
How, pray-tell, do you propose the student know what will be useful? Draw upon his real-world skill and on the job training he hasn't received yet? Ask an adult two decades removed from college what classes were useful two decades ago in college? Ask a recent graduate what he used? Sure, but that's assuming you know what job you're going to get. It's nice to imagine that's how things work, but practically, colleges pick paths because students wouldn't know what to take even if given total freedom.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 4:03 pm
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