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re: Let's talk about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings
Posted on 12/3/14 at 11:59 am to mpar98
Posted on 12/3/14 at 11:59 am to mpar98
I have always had the opinion that the US should have demonstrated the power of the atomic bomb by dropping one in Tokyo Bay. If the Japs didn't capitulate at that time then let them have it.
3
Posted on 12/3/14 at 11:59 am to Peazey
quote:
Any morality that is later tried to be imposed is typically just a farce that is perpetrated on the losers by the victors in order to further dehumanize the opposition and justify the events of the war. Nothing about war is moral or nice. War is brutal, barbaric, and horrible. In many ways those bombs weren't any worse than many other things that took place during WWII.
This X 100
What I wish I had typed in my first reply.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 11:59 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Hell, for that matter we could talk about places like Dresden as well
Yup. I was gonna mention Dresden too. Read some of the survivors stories of that Armageddon. The hair will stand up on the back of your neck.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:00 pm to truetigerfan1975
It was a necessary evil, and the Japanese brought it on themselves.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:00 pm to truetigerfan1975
We valued the hundreds of thousands of our soldiers lives that we would lose if we invaded them over the civilian lives in those two cities.
That is the root of the issue, and I think we made the right choice. End it quickly (it was awful don't get me wrong) rather than invading and then killing millions more people.
The fire bombings of Tokyo and other cities killed far more than the nukes did. And that would've continued in earnest if we had invaded
That is the root of the issue, and I think we made the right choice. End it quickly (it was awful don't get me wrong) rather than invading and then killing millions more people.
The fire bombings of Tokyo and other cities killed far more than the nukes did. And that would've continued in earnest if we had invaded
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:00 pm to Darth_Vader
There's a good hardcore history podcast by Dan carlin on the bombing. I can't remember the name but it's a a pretty good look at the subject. It should be still on the podcasts app for free.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:01 pm to Hermit Crab
Hermit, you hit on one of the most under-appreciated results of using the bombs. I think it sobered several generations of militaristic tyrants in the Soviet Union what the ramifications of a nuclear exchange would be. Although, I don't think anyone in the US command system was thinking this far ahead when the decision to use the bombs against Japan was made.
It was just a positive by-product of a negative situation. Several hundred thousand Japanese may have given their lives to save hundreds of millions of future lives worldwide.
It was just a positive by-product of a negative situation. Several hundred thousand Japanese may have given their lives to save hundreds of millions of future lives worldwide.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:01 pm to truetigerfan1975
It was war... people die.. including women and children..
Always been that way.
I am more interested in winning a war than saving their lives.
If ya do not want your women and children to die, then don't start a war...
Always been that way.
I am more interested in winning a war than saving their lives.
If ya do not want your women and children to die, then don't start a war...
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:02 pm to truetigerfan1975
The end objective of war is to win. Period.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:02 pm to truetigerfan1975
quote:
Again, the supporters' claims are compelling and I understand the arrogance and barbarity of Japanese leaders at that time, but that's just my personal opinion.
If you still have to question the bombings, then no, you dont understand the barbarity of Japanese leaders at that time.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:03 pm to truetigerfan1975
quote:
morality of the bombings.
Read the first few chapters of Flyboys, the WWII book by James Bradley (not the WWI movie).
Did it for me.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:04 pm to dnm3305
quote:
If you still have to question the bombings, then no, you dont understand the barbarity of Japanese leaders at that time.
It's fair to question the bombings. I agree with the use, but questioning past decisions in conflict is a great exercise and one that should be encouraged.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:06 pm to kjntgr
quote:
I have always had the opinion that the US should have demonstrated the power of the atomic bomb by dropping one in Tokyo Bay. If the Japs didn't capitulate at that time then let them have it.
Don't think we had enough of them to do that.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:07 pm to Pettifogger
Slightly off topic but anyone who likes to read up on such, check this book out:
Masters of the Air: America's Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany by; Donald L. Miller
Hanks/Speilberg are doing another HBO doc using this book. It's really great. They explore the aerial wars through the eyes of enlisted men of the Eighth Air Force -- known as the men of the Mighty Eighth. The project will use the book as its source material historian.
On topic, they talk about the change in philosophy from bombing just military targets/soldiers to civilians in order to break their spirit, etc. It's great stuff.
Masters of the Air: America's Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany by; Donald L. Miller
Hanks/Speilberg are doing another HBO doc using this book. It's really great. They explore the aerial wars through the eyes of enlisted men of the Eighth Air Force -- known as the men of the Mighty Eighth. The project will use the book as its source material historian.
On topic, they talk about the change in philosophy from bombing just military targets/soldiers to civilians in order to break their spirit, etc. It's great stuff.
This post was edited on 12/3/14 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:07 pm to Signal Soldier
If you have genuine interest in this subject please read This
quote:
Newsweek, 11/11/63, Ike on Ike
Eisenhower also noted (pg. 380):
In [July] 1945… Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. …the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.
During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face’. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude….
quote:
In the years since the two atomic bombs were dropped on Japan, a number of historians have suggested that the weapons had a two-pronged objective …. It has been suggested that the second objective was to demonstrate the new weapon of mass destruction to the Soviet Union. By August 1945, relations between the Soviet Union and the United States had deteriorated badly. The Potsdam Conference between U.S. President Harry S. Truman, Russian leader Joseph Stalin, and Winston Churchill (before being replaced by Clement Attlee) ended just four days before the bombing of Hiroshima. The meeting was marked by recriminations and suspicion between the Americans and Soviets. Russian armies were occupying most of Eastern Europe. Truman and many of his advisers hoped that the U.S. atomic monopoly might offer diplomatic leverage with the Soviets. In this fashion, the dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan can be seen as the first shot of the Cold War.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:08 pm to Supravol22
Why do you have Eli in your profile pic?
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:08 pm to dnm3305
quote:
If you still have to question the bombings, then no, you dont understand the barbarity of Japanese leaders at that time.
BTW we specifically spared Kyoto because of its historical significance. That's why it's the only major city in Japan that has so many centuries old buildings still standing. We bombed the other ones into rubble. And we choose not to bomb it. Although I think I read it was close to the top of the next to bomb list to further demoralize the population.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:08 pm to TigerGman
quote:
Dresden
Screw the Germans and their whining about this as well.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:08 pm to Hermit Crab
quote:
Don't think we had enough of them to do that.
That is correct.. We made 3 bombs..
1st one was used in the test...
So we dropped the other two and basically bluffed them to the surrender
Posted on 12/3/14 at 12:10 pm to Peazey
The Japs were no strangers to butchery...Nanking?
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