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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 3/11/25 at 7:30 pm to AU86
Posted on 3/11/25 at 7:30 pm to AU86
quote:
They were at a position of strength then and Russia was very disorganized.
Biden should have flooded Ukraine with tanks, F16s, artillery, HIMARS. Everything. Putin would have stayed home and 1 million men would still be alive.
I think everyone agrees on at least this
3
Posted on 3/11/25 at 7:55 pm to No Colors
I will give you an example of the hypocrisy in all of this.
Europe cried for over three years that Russia was going to invade them. Russia is an existential threat.
Europe and Ukraine are fighting for democracy and its existence.
Our survival is on the line!!!
Ukrainians are dying for our defense!!!
But not one European country ever attempted to establish its economy on a war footing to meet that so called threat.
Plus they paid more to Russia for energy last year than they supplied Ukraine in resources.
What does that tell you?
" AS LONG AS IT TAKES"
Their policy turned out to be nothing but a bumper sticker.
Over three years of long winded speeches, photo ops for politicians and grift.
Europe cried for over three years that Russia was going to invade them. Russia is an existential threat.
Europe and Ukraine are fighting for democracy and its existence.
Our survival is on the line!!!
Ukrainians are dying for our defense!!!
But not one European country ever attempted to establish its economy on a war footing to meet that so called threat.
Plus they paid more to Russia for energy last year than they supplied Ukraine in resources.
What does that tell you?
" AS LONG AS IT TAKES"
Their policy turned out to be nothing but a bumper sticker.
Over three years of long winded speeches, photo ops for politicians and grift.
This post was edited on 3/11/25 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 3/11/25 at 7:58 pm to AU86
quote:
BINGO!!! You finally get it!!
I've always gotten that part... I don't believe Putin will stop for anything. I don't think Trump can get him to stop... nobody else can, either...
It doesn't matter if he was losing, he will not stop. Ever.
If he did, that makes Georgia fight harder to get away from him... and maybe inspires Belarus and the Chechens to start protesting and rebelling.
Ukraine has to be made into an example of what happens when you defy Putin!
This goes on until either Ukraine ceases to exist, either by becoming "Russian" or becoming rubble and graves... or Russia collapses.
If Putin doesn't "win," outright, he loses more than just the War. He has been fought to a stalemate by an inferior smaller neighbor, even with the help of NATO and the US, both of which he insists he's more powerful than...
... and also, it would not stop in Ukraine, and Europe fully realizes that now. They've slept through Putin spending 20 years laying the groundwork to get people sympathetic or outright subservient to him elected in their countries... Moldova and Romania will not be the only states actually banning Putin-backed candidates in elections.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:00 pm to No Colors
quote:
Biden should have flooded Ukraine with tanks, F16s, artillery, HIMARS. Everything. Putin would have stayed home and 1 million men would still be alive.
I think everyone agrees on at least this
Obama should've done it when Crimea was invaded...
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:04 pm to Lee B
quote:
I've always gotten that part... I don't believe Putin will stop for anything. I don't think Trump can get him to stop... nobody else can, either...
You may be right.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:06 pm to AU86
quote:
But not one European country ever attempted to establish its economy on a war footing to meet that so called threat.
quote:
Plus they paid more to Russia for energy last year than they supplied Ukraine in resources.
Point agreed with... and that's "the weakness of Democracy" that Putin and Xi like to talk about... along with "The West will not stand up for anything if it slightly inconveniences them."
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:08 pm to Lee B
quote:
Obama should've done it when Crimea was invaded...
Obama wanted the Russians at the table at that time so he could get his Iran Nuclear Deal.
He was never going to do anything to stop that.
But...
Send blankets.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:09 pm to AU86
quote:
Istanbul deal was discussed in early weeks of war
US official has called it possible 'guidepost' towards a deal
Kremlin says Putin also sees it as starting point
Draft would have meant neutral status for Ukraine
Kyiv has previously said Istanbul draft is unacceptable
Putin never agreed. Ukraine openly disapproved. Without assurances Russia would attack them again. We all know that.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:15 pm to doubleb
The Russians actually agreed to the principles of the deal. They put their initials on it. Zelensky is the one that ended it and decided to fight on.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:21 pm to Lee B
quote:
Point agreed with... and that's "the weakness of Democracy" that Putin and Xi like to talk about... along with "The West will not stand up for anything if it slightly inconveniences them."
This is a tragedy for the Ukrainian people. They have been screwed by Lenin, Stalin and now this. They are cursed by geography like the Poles.
The irony is that all of the demands that the Russians are howling about regarding the rights of the ethnic Russians such as speaking the native language, having that language taught in schools, religion, etc. were all denied to the Ukrainian people by the Soviets/Bolsheviks. The Bolsheviks/Soviets used the Checka/NKVD and the Russian Orthodox Church for implementing it.
It really is sad.
This post was edited on 3/11/25 at 8:34 pm
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:24 pm to No Colors
quote:
Trump said something last year. I don't remember the exact quote. But it was something along the lines of: "I'm gonna make Putin accept a truce. And if he doesn't, I'm gonna make him regret it by sending Ukraine more weapons than they ever dreamed of."... something along those lines.
Yea I’ve been thinking about this too. I will believe it when I see it, but I will be curious to see Trump’s reaction of Putin says no thanks to a cease fire. Anyone else would be put on full Twitter blast by Trump and any levers of pressure pulled.
Ending the war now at roughly the current front line seems bad for Putin. What’s left of Ukraine will be entering into more direct development deals with the US and a redevelopment fund from Europe. But continuing the war risks an escalation either Trump.
I think Putin will accept, but continue to skirmish/provocate once Trump has declared victory in ending the war and the conflict is out of the American news cycle. Or he will demur and blame complexities of reparations owed to Russia, Russian POW’s, etc.
In any event, does anyone have a map from Ukraine’s victory in Kherson to now? My guess is it proves Darth had the read of a stalemate correct before most people.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:30 pm to AU86
Could you link that please. I missed it
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:39 pm to doubleb
ISW Update March 11 2025
quote:
Key Takeaways:
The United States and Ukraine agreed on March 11 to an immediate 30-day ceasefire in Ukraine contingent on Russia's agreement, and the US reportedly restarted intelligence sharing and military aid.
Ukraine's allies and partners from Europe, Asia, and Oceania continue efforts to strengthen the Ukrainian military and back Ukraine with security guarantees – the most effective deterrent against future Russian aggression against Ukraine following a potential future peace agreement.
Russian forces continue to make confirmed advances in Kursk Oblast and have likely begun attacking Sudzha.
Ukrainian forces conducted a large-scale series of drone strikes against Russia on the night of March 10 to 11, largely targeting Moscow Oblast.
Ukrainian forces recently advanced near Toretsk and Pokrovsk, and Russian forces recently advanced near Siversk and Robotyne and in Kursk Oblast.
The Kremlin continues to expand social benefits for Russian soldiers who fought in Ukraine, including soldiers who have fought for the militias of the Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics (DNR and LNR) since 2014.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:45 pm to AU86
quote:
But not one European country ever attempted to establish its economy on a war footing to meet that so called threat.
No one needed to go this far, they just needed to actually have defense spending worth a crap. They just needed to spend enough on defense as they agreed to as part of NATO. As percent of GDP, Sweden, Finland, Poland and some others met the challenge, Germany and others refused to. They want to work 30 hrs a week, have everything free and long paid vacations.
Butterflies and unicorns forever mentality.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:48 pm to AU86
quote:
Obama wanted the Russians at the table at that time so he could get his Iran Nuclear Deal.
Yep. And Americans were angry at W and tired of military adventures...
Also, Putin put the US in an "image bind" by framing it as saving "a persecuted minority ethnic group" (Russians)... after NATO used that reasoning for intervening in the Kosovo War against the Serbs...
and the Post-Soviet breakup of Yugoslavia is a thing with Putin... as he sees it as a preview of how Russia would break up into its Ethnic regions (see "Coeur's" profile pic), believes that the West was behind the ethnic battles and establishment of smaller states, most of whom were eager to join the EU and then probably NATO.
quote:
He was never going to do anything to stop that.
But...
Send blankets.
He also sent armored Humvees and medical kits and coats and other "non-leathal military gear"...
And by not having to pay for that stuff, Ukraine got to buy more weapons with their own money. And we got say "but we didn't arm them!!!"
Also, secretly we sent military advisors who started training their Special Ops people (the ones who kicked arse in the early days of the invasion) and got their larger military on the road to restructuring... there's still too many people initially trained by leftover Soviets making bad and dumb decisions down the ladder, but it would've been much worse.
This post was edited on 3/11/25 at 8:50 pm
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:53 pm to CitizenK
quote:
No one needed to go this far, they just needed to actually have defense spending worth a crap. They just needed to spend enough on defense as they agreed to as part of NATO. As percent of GDP, Sweden, Finland, Poland and some others met the challenge, Germany and others refused to. They want to work 30 hrs a week, have everything free and long paid vacations.
Butterflies and unicorns forever mentality.
The Germans, in particular, but others in Europe thought "Just make Putin and Russia rich, and they'll have no reason to be assholes!"
Trump made that same pitch to Kim in North Korea in that video presentation he brought with him for their meeting.
A Western mistake... we think everybody is motivated only by material riches. We also don't understand that Putin and Kim are the richest men on the planet because everything in their countries belong SOLELY to them.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 9:08 pm to Lee B
Posted on 3/11/25 at 9:16 pm to John Barron
Posted on 3/11/25 at 9:17 pm to John Barron
Posted on 3/11/25 at 9:55 pm to Lee B
quote:
And Americans were angry at W and tired of military adventures
Yea I think people are forgetting, perhaps conveniently, how powerful that sentiment was and how repulsed Americans were by the thought of another foreign adventure after the Afghan and bush invasions.
People say Obama was weak in responding to Crimea in 2014. Perhaps. But bush’s decisions a decade earlier are as much to blame in my mind. There was no public will at all.
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