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Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 12/20/23 at 12:33 pm to Chromdome35
Posted on 12/20/23 at 12:33 pm to Chromdome35
Paper mills shutdown in large due lack of exports to China after China started making their own paper. Shipload after shipload was loaded out of Savannah and Gulf Coast ports in the 1980's.
Then IP shutdown more papermills, many had recently gone through full process controls updating because they cut a deal with Russia to be supplied all the hardwood timber than could handle and a brand new giant papermill there. This was in the early 2000's
Most of those old sites ain't there anymore. China's scrap demand from 2005-2008 made it profitable to demolish almost all of them.
Then IP shutdown more papermills, many had recently gone through full process controls updating because they cut a deal with Russia to be supplied all the hardwood timber than could handle and a brand new giant papermill there. This was in the early 2000's
Most of those old sites ain't there anymore. China's scrap demand from 2005-2008 made it profitable to demolish almost all of them.
0
Posted on 12/20/23 at 1:28 pm to Lima Whiskey
Will be interesting to see how long it takes to churn out completed and operational tanks.
27years seems like a long time just from a "get the lines manned and moving" and what has happened to all the suppliers in the interim - electronics, optics, etc
27years seems like a long time just from a "get the lines manned and moving" and what has happened to all the suppliers in the interim - electronics, optics, etc
Posted on 12/20/23 at 1:35 pm to TigersnJeeps
quote:
27years seems like a long time just from a "get the lines manned and moving"
It’ll will be interesting to see.
quote:
and what has happened to all the suppliers in the interim - electronics, optics, etc
That part probably won’t be as hard. They’ve been overhauling and refurbishing T80s since then.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 2:32 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
The Russians are restarting T-80 production at the Omsktransmash plant. That assembly line has been idle for 27 years.
Its nice to have capacity to build something when you need it.
Do you ever post anything that is not Russian propaganda? Yes the Russians say they are restarting production at Omsktransmash but that line has been shut down for 27 years. That means it is going to need a lot of TLC and new components to get the machinery back working. Russia's pathetic computer industry cannot produce the computer chips needed to make the old machines work again and Russia's machine tool industry is worse than it was in 1991 so Russia cannot make new machine tools to replace the broken ones on the line.
Even if Russia is somehow able to get the line back up and running, experts say that it will make < 10 new tanks per month. It is not going to make a difference. Russia has lost > 2400 tanks since the invasion started. That is > 100 tanks per month. Russia's Uralvagonzavod plant is producing about 20 tanks per month. That figure inclludes both completely new T90s and T72s and reworked T72s, T62s, and T55s pulled out of storage. If the largest tank plant in the world can only make 20 tanks per month how is a smaller plant that has been shut down for nearly 30 years going to significantly boost production. Russia not being able to replace 70 something percent of its losses is not going to be much different than Russia not being able to replace 80% of its loses. Also the tanks that were lost had modern western optics and electronic but again thanks to Russia's pathetic computer industry it is being forced to use cold war era gear on its "new" tanks. So Russia is replacing its best tanks with tanks with freshly repainted and repaired cold war era gear which fared so well in Desert Storm. Also Russia/USSR was never able to build a gas turbine engine for the T80 that was worth a f**k. So the few T80s that Omsktransmash might produce one day will have no real effect on the battlefield but it does sound good from a propaganda perspective.
ETA: Sorry for the many edits yall. Apparently I am the king of typos today.
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 3:24 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 2:46 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
At the end of WW2, my Grandfather started a furniture store in Camden Arkansas, right next to the store was an IP Papermill. That papermill was the foundation of the Camden economy. Beyond the people it directly employeed, there were thousands of people who's jobs were directly linked to that mill. When the mill closed, the town died, the population is down over 25% and the poverty levels which were already high, skyrocketed.
Spent three weeks in Japan and Korea before covid. I didn't see any of the decay we see here anywhere.
Years ago we went camping up on Moosehead lake in Maine. Drove up via Boston, but drove back by the interior roads to see what it looked like.
There was a great deal of poverty, rundown homes, cars up on blocks, unpainted houses, lawns not mowed and other visible signs of want.
Farther down the road things started looking better. Houses maintained, newer cars, lawns mowed and such. At the center of the improvement was a crossroad with one stoplight and a very old, ramshackle fish canning factory on the corner. That old factory radiated its economy for 20 or so miles around.
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 2:57 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
That part probably won’t be as hard. They’ve been overhauling and refurbishing T80s since then.
Yeah using French electronics. They cannot get those now thanks to the sanctions. Russia has been forced 1970s era optics and electronic gear on the T80s it has refurbished for at least the past year. The new ones will be no different.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:05 pm to Lima Whiskey
Hey comrade Lima Whiskey you are not going to like this.
Granted that is from the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense so the number is probably inflated. However, even if Russia only lost 1/2 that number that is still 22 tanks in one day. That is more tanks that produce and refurbish a month. Russia is going to need to produce a lot more tanks if it loses an entire month's worth of production or more in one day.
quote:LINK
Russia has lost 44 tanks and 60 armored personnel vehicles in a single day, Kyiv's military has said, the latest sign of steep Russian armored vehicle losses as Moscow plows on with its offensive around the embattled town of Avdiivka.
Granted that is from the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense so the number is probably inflated. However, even if Russia only lost 1/2 that number that is still 22 tanks in one day. That is more tanks that produce and refurbish a month. Russia is going to need to produce a lot more tanks if it loses an entire month's worth of production or more in one day.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:27 pm to WeeWee
Some idiots pretend that, if the US stops giving military assistance to Ukraine, the war would quickly come to an end. That's obviously not true, especially because our European allies are increasing their contributions. Countries such as Finland can't afford to let Russia win, and they know it.
LINK
LINK
quote:
Finland doubling its ammo production with $25M in seed money, Defense Minister Antti Häkkänen told me. All of that ammo will go to Ukraine.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 5:08 pm to GOP_Tiger
It's language used to create an entertaining post and to facilitate good back and forth from both sides
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 5:09 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 5:11 pm to GOP_Tiger
Oh no, Ukraine Bros! The CIA's favoured method of news dissemination has removed the Ukraine war perma-banner from its masthead.
That means it's time for all of you to get behind the NEW method of "defending democracy", which happens to be banning Donald Trump from swing state ballots.
The good news is that all of your heroes including Chaim "Bill" Kristol, Liz Cheney, Moise "Jonah" Goldberg, Adam Kinzinger, Tamar "Jennifer" Rubin, and Mitt Romney will be again standing firmly by your side on this important issue!
That means it's time for all of you to get behind the NEW method of "defending democracy", which happens to be banning Donald Trump from swing state ballots.
The good news is that all of your heroes including Chaim "Bill" Kristol, Liz Cheney, Moise "Jonah" Goldberg, Adam Kinzinger, Tamar "Jennifer" Rubin, and Mitt Romney will be again standing firmly by your side on this important issue!
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 5:17 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 5:31 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Also Russia/USSR was never able to build a gas turbine engine for the T80 that was worth a f**k
Does this mean that Ukrainian tank mechanics have EXTENSIVE experience in repairing gas turbines (this name is used even if fueled by diesel)?????
Posted on 12/20/23 at 5:49 pm to SirWinston
quote:
It's language used to create an entertaining post and to facilitate good back and forth from both sides
ROFL. So, when you said that the evidence that the moon landings were fake was "convincing," you didn't actually mean it, and you were just trying to be entertaining and start some crap.
In other words, trolling.. It's good to have you admit what you actually are.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 5:53 pm to WeeWee
quote:Dude, you really should take a break from the shitposting. You cite your own "sauces" far too often to run on others like that.
Hey comrade Lima Whiskey
Goose and gander ... Right?
Just post your own stuff.
Let it, and the rest, settle where it will.
If you have questions about someone else's posts, drop the "comrade" bullshite. It's beneath you.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 6:18 pm to CitizenK
quote:
Also Russia/USSR was never able to build a gas turbine engine for the T80 that was worth a f**k
Does this mean that Ukrainian tank mechanics have EXTENSIVE experience in repairing gas turbines (this name is used even if fueled by diesel)?????
Not really. The Ukrainian SSR decided it would produce a diesel version of the T80 which was called the T80UD. The T80UD proved to be superior to the Russian produced T80 because its diesel engine was more reliable than the T80s gas turbine engine. Prior to the invasion Ukraine had retired the T80 in order to standardize as much as possible around the T64 (which has a diesel engine). However, it had 34 T80s which were in the process of being modernized to be brought back into service but again they had diesel engines. Ukraine has since captured at least 50 Russian T80s which have the gas turbine engine and are using them so they obviously have some experience but not that much since the majority of their tanks (T64s, T72s, T80s, and T84) have diesel engines.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 6:22 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Russia has lost 44 tanks and 60 armored personnel vehicles in a single day, Kyiv's military has said, the latest sign of steep Russian armored vehicle losses as Moscow plows on with its offensive around the embattled town of Avdiivka.
LINK
If Russia was losing armor at even a quarter of the rates that are claimed by the Ukrainian military the war would've been over a long time ago.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 6:26 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Dude, you really should take a break from the shitposting.
Dude you just went on a multi day rant about peace talks and completely missed the point that multiple posters were making which is that Putin will accept no peace proposal that allows Ukraine to maintain a military and have security guarantees from any nation other than Russia. Putin's conditions were unacceptable to Ukraine in April of 2022 and Ukraine's counter offer which included security guarantees was unacceptable to Putin in 2022 and neither side has changed their minds. If anyone needs to stop posting it is your naive self-righteous arse.
quote:
You cite your own "sauces" far too often to run on others like that.
There is a difference in passing on information that I learned from people in Ukraine and posting nothing but Russian propaganda like Lima Whiskey does. Maybe if you read something other than the BS that you have posted over the past week you would know that.
quote:
If you have questions about someone else's posts, drop the "comrade" bullshite. It's beneath you.
Niet and
ETA: Again sorry for the edits yall. Typos be killing me today.
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 6:41 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 6:37 pm to Scuttle But
quote:
If Russia was losing armor at even a quarter of the rates that are claimed by the Ukrainian military the war would've been over a long time ago.
The UK estimates that Russia has lost over > 2400 tanks from 2/23/22 - November 20223. Oryx has documented photo evidence of 2571 tanks severely damaged, destroyed, or captured. Ukraine claims Russia has lost around 5,000 tanks. There is photo evidence to support 1/2 of Ukraine's claims and western estimates are consistent with that.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 6:38 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Yeah using French electronics. They cannot get those now thanks to the sanctions.
PNM-T
Posted on 12/20/23 at 6:40 pm to Scuttle But
quote:
If Russia was losing armor at even a quarter of the rates that are claimed by the Ukrainian military the war would've been over a long time ago.
Yes
It’s propaganda to bolster morale and increase Western support for the war
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 6:46 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 6:40 pm to WeeWee
Putin doesn't want NATO on his doorstep. If NATO and Ukraine stop flirting, this thing could be resolved.
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