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Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 10/7/22 at 11:53 am to Darth_Vader
Posted on 10/7/22 at 11:53 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
’ve made it clear from the start I’m not pro-Russia. I look at this war from a completely rational standpoint based upon decades of deep study in history and geopolitical matters. Having said that, it cannot be denied the actions of NATO and the United States over the previous years did factor into the situation. I’m not saying we intentionally goaded Russia into invading Ukraine. But we did play a part. Let me explain.
NATO was created for one reason, to stop Russian advances westward immediately after WWII. Russia responded with their Warsaw Pact. You ask why was NATO necessary? Well Rusdia wasn’t going to abandon their conquests; Poland, the Baltic States, Hungary, Yugoslavia, part of Germany, and the rest. They intended to stay there, and institute Communism. To do that they required a military occupation. The West responded by building a defense with the US leading the way.
quote:
I ascribe it mostly to ill-advised idealism by many politicians and leaders in the West who fundamentally do not understand Russia. There were lost opportunities to deescalate the situation and perhaps avoid this war. Those opportunities were lost though.
Russia is paranoid. But Russia is also imperialistic. They have invaded and conquered for centuries. Perhaps there were opportunities to stop this war, but the thing is; does Russia really ever stop. Halt, retreat yes, however, they never stop.
quote:
Now, none of this I say excuses Russia from their invasion. They made the choice to launch this war. They are the aggressor here. But remember, in war there’s always two points of view, yours and the enemy. When Japan attacked the US in December 1941, they did so because, from their point of view, they had no other choice. I’m not saying they were justified, Jair that this was their point of view.
Japan was threatened by the US only because they too were imperialistic and had been after Russian, and Chinese lands. They were extremely warlike and way before Pearl were involved in large Asian wars. They had every reason to attack the US, but there was no moral justification really just a political justification.
quote:
they had to invade. Is it right? Of course not. But the fact remains this is how they view it. The failure on the part of the West is we failed to realize the Russian point of view in time to avoid this war. I don’t think it was intentional. I don’t think anyone in the west wanted this war. Well, anyone besides defense contractors anyway. But there were opportunities to avoid the war. Sadly, those chances were missed.
Russia did not have to invade. They could have lived up to their agreements and with diplomacy appeased the west and Ukraine.
Their actions in Crimea, the Donbas, Georgia and in other areas of Asia made Russia untrustworthy. Ukrsine naturally turned to tgd West for help,
The West understands Russia better than you think. Imperialism is in their nature. It’s in their DNA.
0
Posted on 10/7/22 at 12:05 pm to Chromdome35
quote:Give everyone the same access to a social platform, and you'll only hear from the loudest. Take this forum for example. We who create names and post are the extreme minority of the total people who view this site.
We may not be as fractured as we were in the Vietnam era, I don't know because I was just a kid back in those days and wasn't politically aware, but I think there is ample evidence of extreme polarization in our country today. The polarization today is from completely different reasons than it was in 60' and 70's.
You only see crazy because the overwhelming majority of people are normal.
Posted on 10/7/22 at 12:07 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
Russian needs to try different justifications because it’s hard to say the quiet part out loud in 2022 - Russia is trying to enrich itself by adding land, resources and people into its borders by sword and force of sword.
Before this war, I also approached the question in a logical way, looking for reasons and analyzing statements.
Now, I think that I understand better. The struggle is much more emotional than that. Let me explain from the Russian point of view, with my paraphrase of what I constantly see referenced on Russian TV, print, tweets, etc.:
quote:
Kyiv is the heart of our ancestral realm. When Moscow was still nothing but forest, the Kievan Rus was powerful. Odesa was founded by Catherine the Great -- it's Russian! Thirty years ago, everyone in eastern Ukraine spoke Russian as a first language, and only those poor stupid peasant farmers and mountain shepherds in the western part of Ukraine spoke Ukrainian. To remove Russian as an official language is an insult.
To remove most of your churches from underneath the Moscow Patriarchate and establish an autonomous Ukrainian Orthodox Church? That's an insult to God, as well as an insult to Russia, ignoring the may centuries that Russia protected the Orthodox faith.
When the Ottoman Turks were invading and carting off many millions of your people into slavery, it was Russia that fought back.
This war was never about Russian fear of NATO (if so, Russia would have made a much bigger deal about Sweden and Finland joining). It's about Russian pride and makes the most sense if you think about Russia as a jilted lover out for revenge.
It was about restoring some of Russia's lost glory. As Putin said, the USSR should never have been split up. In their view, the "Russkiy Mir," the Russian World, is an important force for good in the world, and what happened in Ukraine is a corruption of it by the West, which wants to destroy it.
This post was edited on 10/7/22 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 10/7/22 at 12:08 pm to GOP_Tiger
And what was the Biden’s reason for being in Ukraine all that time
Oh money
got it
Oh money
got it
Posted on 10/7/22 at 12:15 pm to Proximo
quote:
And what was the Biden’s reason for being in Ukraine all that time
Oh money
Please go back to the Poliboard, where such comments are considered rhetorical brilliance.
Yes, Hunter Biden is a crook and should be prosecuted, and he was in Ukraine because he wanted to use his father's name to swindle Ukrainian companies out of money -- all of which has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
Posted on 10/7/22 at 12:23 pm to Palantir
I agree, Social media distorts reality.
Posted on 10/7/22 at 1:12 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
@Apex_WW · 31m Update: Reuters: The U.S. government this week bought $290 million in supplies of a drug designed to treat blood cell injuries following radiological and nuclear emergencies as part of what it said were long-standing efforts to prepare for potential health impacts from threats to national security.
Not to get all conspiracy theorist but I wonder if we've seen something that may indicate Russia is preparing nukes? The rhetoric seems to me to be growing, especially with Biden's statements last night. We'd be the last ones to know to prevent a panic run on banks and food stores.
Posted on 10/7/22 at 1:16 pm to Burhead
quote:
@Apex_WW · 31m Update: Reuters: The U.S. government this week bought $290 million in supplies of a drug designed to treat blood cell injuries following radiological and nuclear emergencies as part of what it said were long-standing efforts to prepare for potential health impacts from threats to national security. Not to get all conspiracy theorist but I wonder if we've seen something that may indicate Russia is preparing nukes? The rhetoric seems to me to be growing, especially with Biden's statements last night. We'd be the last ones to know to prevent a panic run on banks and food stores.
Perhaps, but had these type purchases happened before, or is this unique?
Posted on 10/7/22 at 1:17 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
I like that you used the term based b/c that all but confirms your childlike outlook on the world. Grow the frick up.
Posted on 10/7/22 at 1:18 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
Rybar talking about the EU Energy Crisis
He is listening to Russia's own propaganda on national TV.
Natural gas prices have fallen even in futures markets substantially even after the Nordstream incidents.
While LNG is more expensive, by a lot, Japan has existed on it and not really been harmed. Natural gas pipelines extend from Norway to Europe and the UK.
Europe's refining and petrochemicals was doomed the day that plentiful natural gas especially NGL's enabled world class petrochemical plants to be built, the highest concentration of such new manufacturing is Lake Charles. Europe's petrochemicals start with naphtha from refineries like most of the world. Even their Russian natural gas couldn't compete with inexpensive hydrogen for their hydrocracker (makes more diesel than a cat cracker) use as well as to desulfurize. Major refineries began closing there several years ago.
As to electricity, per a France 24 program, the EU regs for price of electricity is set by the price of the highest cost source. Perhaps France had the best lobbying so that nuke would make bank, or the Greta Greens to hide the higher cost of wind and solar and use of peaking gas turbines used to supplement the grid. Huge difference between combined cycle gas turbine plants in use here which considering capital investment close to the cost of nuke power so much so that France was considering using them to replace nuke as older plants needed to be retired.
Two each FSRU's are already receiving LNG off the Netherlands coast, 3 more to be on line at Germany by end of year. Storage in Europe and Ukraine should be closer to 100% than on any recent years. BTW, Ukraine was a ton of natural gas storage only behind the USA and Russia in capacity.
Europe will have a hard winter this year but not the dire one predicted at mid summer. BTW Tucker was full of crap in his segment on this.
Posted on 10/7/22 at 1:20 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
all of which has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
Really?
Posted on 10/7/22 at 1:21 pm to Chromdome35
Meduza
quote:
A source from the administration of one of Russia’s federal subjects called the decision to hold back on Putin's birthday festivities “a sensible idea”: “Why would we want to highlight that our president has been a pensioner for a long time now?”
“People are scared shitless around him. But it’s fear without respect. They haven’t had respect [for Putin] for two or three years now,” a source close to the Russian government told Meduza. Two other sources close to the government and one close to the Kremlin gave similar accounts of the mood in Moscow.
According to the sources, Russian elites’ feelings towards Putin soured after his decision to raise the country’s pension age in 2018 — a move a majority of Russians opposed.
quote:
According to Meduza’s sources, Putin has gradually stopped warning the ministers of his plans both for the short term and the long term.
quote:
At the same time, sources close to the government said that ministers don’t dare push back even on Putin’s most “unexpected” decisions — because they’re afraid of the consequences. “When [former Economic Development Minister Alexey] Ulyukayev was arrested, everyone got the message,” said one source.
quote:
Other sources close to the government added that this fear, in combination with Putin’s aversion to hearing about problems from his subordinates, has led officials to start significantly embellishing the facts in their reports to the president. Few people, if anyone, have been willing to tell him about the true consequences of Western sanctions or the Russian economy, for example.
quote:
Sources close to the Kremlin, as well as a source who knows members of Putin’s inner circle, noted that the president is “unable to give an image of the future” to even the highest-level officials and top businessmen: “These people are suffering because of sanctions; they’re losing huge amounts of money. But it’s completely unclear to them whether the Kremlin will be able to compensate for it all.”
quote:
Like government employees, high-ranking officials don’t allow themselves to speak negatively about Putin, Meduza’s sources noted. “Who’s going to jail him? He’s a monument!” said one source, quoting a Soviet comedy film.
It’s unclear to Russian elites how the “monument” plans to end the war against Ukraine. Several high-ranking sources told Meduza that the combination of Putin’s recent statements about nuclear war and the Ukrainian military’s success at the front has made them nervous. “He doesn't know how to lose,” said one. “And he especially doesn’t know how to admit he’s losing.”
Posted on 10/7/22 at 1:22 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
quote:
Ukrainian terrorists shell a civilian bus in Kherson Oblast, Russian Federation killing at least five.
Assuming this happened it is just an unfortunate byproduct of civilians in a military AO. The Daryivskiy bridge is a target since it is one of the few crossings the Russians still hold. It is a legitimate military target. Even if the Uke's have FO eyes on the bridge which they likely don't unless it is via drone the short length of the bridge means the bus was likely not on the bridge when the rounds left the tube.
Posted on 10/7/22 at 1:32 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
quote:
poor haj go flying off the bottom of our C 130
Just a clue for the clueless the C-130 has props and is nearly half the length of a C-17 which has turbofans. The plane in question was a Globemaster not a Herk.
Posted on 10/7/22 at 1:55 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
(1) the only way to win a nuclear war is to obliterate your opponent before he can launch his nukes.
The two approaches are launch on warning and retaliation after rideout. I think if you dig deep enough into US nuclear war doctrine you will see the posture since at least the late 90's (Clinton) has been to prepare the nuclear arsenal for retaliation after rideout.
Posted on 10/7/22 at 2:09 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
was thinking it would be interesting to build a series of kits representing the armor in this war.
Take a look at this thread from kitmaker. The guy built a great representation of a T72 hulk from the Ukraine war. I started following it when I posted some pics early in the war about T72 models with blown turrents. He has finished it and the lengths he went to are insane but not unusual in the community.
kitmaker firum
Posted on 10/7/22 at 2:20 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
This war was never about Russian fear of NATO (if so, Russia would have made a much bigger deal about Sweden and Finland joining). It's about Russian pride and makes the most sense if you think about Russia as a jilted lover out for revenge.
It was about restoring some of Russia's lost glory. As Putin said, the USSR should never have been split up. In their view, the "Russkiy Mir," the Russian World, is an important force for good in the world, and what happened in Ukraine is a corruption of it by the West, which wants to destroy it.
The Ukrainian people suffered under the thumb of Russian/Soviet rule. Can you blame a people for wanting to break free from a broken system that left a region of their country poisoned for next 10,000 years?
The history shared on here over the last few pages comes only from the Russian perspective. I'm sure the Ukrainian Cossacks don't view history in the same lens.
This post was edited on 10/7/22 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 10/7/22 at 2:32 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
quote:
Based Belgium blocks proposed EU embargo on Russian diamonds
It’s not “based” so much as economic - all of those diamonds are passing through Antwerp.
Posted on 10/7/22 at 2:39 pm to BRIllini07
quote:
all of those diamonds are passing through Antwerp.
Belgium has just been disappointing overall in this war. The neighboring Dutch have given Ukraine several times as much weapons and equipment.
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