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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:24 am to Diseasefreeforall
quote:
Whether they saw Kyle raise his weapon towards Rosenbaum on the drone video when he encountered Rosenbaum just before Rosenbaum chased him
This isn't correct. The prosecution alleges he raised his rifle and pointed it at the Ziminskis. This should be irrelevant because:
- It's hard to tell where the Ziminski's are and if he is pointing it at them, if pointing it at all
- Male Ziminski had a gun of his own and allegedly threatened Kyle either before or at the same time in question
- Even if he pointed his rifle at the Ziminski's, how does that justify Rosenbaum's actions, if he even saw that happen?
quote:
Whether Kyle had exhausted his escape options before he shot Rosenbaum.
Is Kyle required to try to escape before deciding to use self-defense?
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:26 am to SUB
quote:
Is Kyle required to try to escape before deciding to use self-defense?
Flufferboy implies you should but no, not in Wisconsin.
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:27 am to SUB
quote:
Is Kyle required to try to escape before deciding to use self-defense?
Cannot speak to Wisconsin law, but Louisiana has a well known provision that one "has no duty to retreat"
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:27 am to FreddieMac
quote:
ust read on Sebastian Gorka's tweeter that the defense was overheard saying it's a 6-6 split amongst the jurors. Didn't mention which charge.
how the hell would they know, its not like they advertise votes.
A chatty bailiff who delivered lunch might have gotten word inside the room.
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:28 am to MSUDawg98
quote:
FNC just stated Kyle's mom was seen going into the courthouse for the first time since deliberations began.
So you think they have a verdict?
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:30 am to tgrbaitn08
quote:
FNC just stated Kyle's mom was seen going into the courthouse for the first time since deliberations began.
So you think they have a verdict?
OH boy.... Is it happening?
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:36 am to JDPndahizzy
Is it live now?
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:40 am to Diseasefreeforall
quote:
There is also the issue of whether Huber, jump kick man and Grosskreutz legitimately believed that Kyle was an active shooter who needed to be stopped
LOL
Kyle was walking to the police and getting chased and attacked from behind. When he fell down he didn’t fire his gun until he had to. There is noting “active shooter” about that. If you think they had a reasonable belief Kyle was an “active shooter” that justified their attacks on him, then you must conclude Kyle reasonably feared serious bodily harm and therefore had a right to use his weapon in defense.
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:42 am to Scruffy
quote:For many issues they have to fight them at the trial court level or risk waiving them for the appeal.
Fighting for an appeal during the actual trial sounds retarded any a recipe for a loss.
How about they fight to win the first one?
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:42 am to Jon Ham
quote:
If you think they had a reasonable belief Kyle was an “active shooter” that justified their attacks on him, then you must conclude Kyle reasonably feared serious bodily harm and therefore had a right to use his weapon in defense.
Very good point
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:45 am to Jon Ham
It’s a strange fact situation where it’s possible the second two people shot might have reasonably, but incorrectly, believed KR was an active shooter and were justified in trying to use force to stop him, while at the same time KR reasonably believed his life was in danger and was justified in using force to defend himself.
This post was edited on 11/19/21 at 10:46 am
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:47 am to WDE24
No. That's what I thought going into the trial about GG. You have to acquit as to GG based on his testimony. Skater guy, I don't know. Rosenpedo, I don't know, he may have thought those initial shots came from Kyle.
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:48 am to WDE24
quote:
It’s a strange fact situation where it’s possible the second two people shot might have reasonably, but incorrectly, believed KR was an active shooter and were justified in trying to use force to stop him, while at the same time KR reasonably believed his life was in danger and was justified in using force to defend himself.
Very good post. This has got to be the biggest thing the jury is wrestling with. It's why I don't think multiple days of deliberations necessarily means a holdout. Hell, the instructions were 30-something pages and that's not factoring in waiting on the dipshit prosecution to argue about their video quality.
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:51 am to WDE24
It is a unique set of facts but to me it’s clear.
It is not reasonable to believe someone is an active shooter when they shot one person, are walking to the police, and are not targeting anyone else.
If that were a “reasonable belief” then anytime one exercised their constitutional right to defend oneself with a gun it would be permissible for anyone to attack that person under the “active shooter” belief. That is in contradiction to our right to bear arms and our right to self defense.
It is not reasonable to believe someone is an active shooter when they shot one person, are walking to the police, and are not targeting anyone else.
If that were a “reasonable belief” then anytime one exercised their constitutional right to defend oneself with a gun it would be permissible for anyone to attack that person under the “active shooter” belief. That is in contradiction to our right to bear arms and our right to self defense.
Posted on 11/19/21 at 10:51 am to WDE24
quote:
It’s a strange fact situation where it’s possible the second two people shot might have reasonably, but incorrectly, believed KR was an active shooter and were justified in trying to use force to stop him, while at the same time KR reasonably believed his life was in danger and was justified in using force to defend himself.
If that's what you conclude of the situation, it's an easy not guilty. Just an unfortunate situation all around.
Posted on 11/19/21 at 11:03 am to redandright
Posted on 11/19/21 at 11:06 am to autauga
Judge should be disbarred for not sequestering. My god, what a clusterfrick.
Posted on 11/19/21 at 11:07 am to autauga
Oh the horror...he woke up at 3:30 am and couldnt go back to sleep until 5 am?
I wake up at 4 am every morning and dont get back to sleep at all
I wake up at 4 am every morning and dont get back to sleep at all
Posted on 11/19/21 at 11:09 am to tgrbaitn08
Right, very odd.
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