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re: Israel–Hamas War Discussion Thread: News Links On First Page
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:47 pm to Burt Orangello
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:47 pm to Burt Orangello
quote:
The Palestinian Authority (governs the West Bank, Abbas is the current honcho and has been for awhile) is very different than Hamas,
And growing further apart since Israel largely locked down Gaza.
That’s part of the tragedy of all this. The PA and Abbas is functional, and likely could be a partner in a real peace process.
Trying to co-exist with Hamas is like trying to co-exist with the Taliban or isis. It’s simply not possible. Hamas taking over the government and administration in Gaza is only going to create more human misery.
1
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:48 pm to Chicken
This post was edited on 10/9/23 at 1:50 pm
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:48 pm to Burt Orangello
quote:
"Palestine" is a bad term to use. "Palestinians" is fine, but "Palestine" implies A) a monolithic entity and B) a formal state or nation.
Semantics again.
Everyone can separate the current issue with Hamas in Gaza from Palestinians writ large.
We don't need you to be some sort of internet arbiter of what we are discussing.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:50 pm to IAmNERD
quote:
Please link where I have ever said this.
You're getting emotional now.
I said it and I stand by it.
The Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas has no only justified the attacks but called for escalation in all arena.
So it’s not just Hamas.
Where is the widespread condemnation from the Muslim world?
Iran is outright funding it. Qatar is celebrating it. The best we could get out of Turkey is “Hey Israel, please don’t retaliate.” Saudi Arabia used it as an excuse to pull out of peace talks with Israel.
So yeah, I stand by it.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:51 pm to IAmNERD
So there was not simultaneous translation of Netanyahu’s remarks while he was speaking, but Fox says that he stated that a ground assault is imminent.
This post was edited on 10/9/23 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:51 pm to IAmNERD
Mario Nawfal
Summary of Israeli Prime Minister just a few minutes ago:
- Hamas asked for war and will face war
- A number of militants are still in our areas and we will work to eliminate them
- We will work on fortifying our borders with Lebanon and the West Bank
- We want to secure international support so that we can move with a large margin of freedom
- I call on the opposition leaders to form an emergency unity government
- Every place Hamas operates from will turn into ruins
- The internal division in Israel is a thing of the past
- Our first step was to clear the towns surrounding the Gaza Strip of militants
- We thank the unprecedented international support for Israel
- There are still a number of Palestinian militants inside Israel
- What we will do to our enemies will reverberate for generations
- Our enemies in the region understand significance of having US Aircraft carrier on the way
- We will do everything for the kidnapped and missing
- We have tough days ahead of us and we are determined to win
Summary of Israeli Prime Minister just a few minutes ago:
- Hamas asked for war and will face war
- A number of militants are still in our areas and we will work to eliminate them
- We will work on fortifying our borders with Lebanon and the West Bank
- We want to secure international support so that we can move with a large margin of freedom
- I call on the opposition leaders to form an emergency unity government
- Every place Hamas operates from will turn into ruins
- The internal division in Israel is a thing of the past
- Our first step was to clear the towns surrounding the Gaza Strip of militants
- We thank the unprecedented international support for Israel
- There are still a number of Palestinian militants inside Israel
- What we will do to our enemies will reverberate for generations
- Our enemies in the region understand significance of having US Aircraft carrier on the way
- We will do everything for the kidnapped and missing
- We have tough days ahead of us and we are determined to win
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:51 pm to IAmNERD
quote:
"Hamas having control in Gaza =/= your statement of "Hamas has overwhelming support within Palestine and the Islamic community as a whole."
Please link where I have ever said this.
I quoted you verbatim.
quote:
1. Hamas has overwhelming support within Palestine and the Islamic community as a whole.
I said that's not true and you rebutted it with ...
quote:
But in Gaza, Hamas has had favor and control since the last elections were held in 2006.
That's a fact. And that's where the trouble is right now.
Anything else I can help you with?
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:53 pm to msutiger
quote:
Where is the widespread condemnation from the Muslim world?
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:54 pm to MrLSU
"U.S. Air Force reportedly deploying an additional 20-25 Multirole Fighter Jets (F-15 and F-35) to the Middle East over the coming days.
Objective of this Deployment: To prevent the War in Israel from spreading into the remainder of the Middle East while also acting as a Deterrent against any kind of Iranian Interference or Aggression."
Mario Nawfal
Objective of this Deployment: To prevent the War in Israel from spreading into the remainder of the Middle East while also acting as a Deterrent against any kind of Iranian Interference or Aggression."
Mario Nawfal
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:54 pm to MrLSU
quote:
- Every place Hamas operates from will turn into ruins
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:56 pm to RogerTheShrubber
"Hezbollah: We attacked the Israeli Pranit and Avivim barracks with guided missiles and mortar shells"
War Monitor
War Monitor
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:57 pm to msutiger
quote:
I said it and I stand by it.
That's fine and that's your prerogative. I don't necessarily disagree. But to have some random Texas fan online tell me I don't understand what I'm talking about because he spent some time in Israel is fricking ridiculous.
Palestinian leadership has supported the destruction of the Israeli state for as long as I've been alive. But in context of the current situation, the West Bank seems to be pretty much sidelined other than not condemning the attacks. (Anyone paying attention wouldn't expect them to). I've yet to see rocket launches from anywhere but Gaza and a few that were *claimed* to be in the north from Hezbollah outposts near the border.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:58 pm to Burt Orangello
quote:
I'm answering your question directly, but not being rude...it's the internet, so my apologies if tone is tough to gauge.)
"Palestine" is a bad term to use. "Palestinians" is fine, but "Palestine" implies A) a monolithic entity and B) a formal state or nation.
Neither are true. I don't want to retype the same thing I've said in a previous post, but I've outlined, in general terms, why "the Palestinians" are anything but a monolithic group.
When you understand that, you answer your second question. There's no upside for a non-existent monolithic group.
Hamas did what it did. Hamas will have varying levels of support from various different groups.
The Palestinian Authority (governs the West Bank, Abbas is the current honcho and has been for awhile) is very different than Hamas, but they might verbally show support much in the same manner a Texan such as myself might abhor the state of California, but would have her back if someone outside of the US pulled some nonsense.
There is nothing about this that is straightforward, so your question sort of answers itself. Make sense? Happy to explain further if you have something specific.
What's the upside for Hamas? A seat at the table assuming they can fight their way there? The way I see it is Hamas is about to be responsible for the outright erasure of the Gaza strip.
That's an awful lot to lose without a firm strategy or firm goals of this.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:58 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
And growing further apart since Israel largely locked down Gaza.
They grew apart for awhile, but recently Abbas has extended a small olive branch to Hamas, offering them a seat at the table in the West Bank/PA.
The PA and Abbas are as dysfunctional as anyone, just in a different way and more easily forgiven since they don't resort to the same level of violence as Hamas (they have in years past, but their current approach is largely "non violent").
You're right in that there is no co-existence with Hamas. That's not a goal of anyone though. The facade is "we're all just trying to figure this out in our own little ways." Reality is they're all used by external actors to wage a low-intensity proxy war against Israel.
That's why there never has been and never will be a permanent peaceful solution... They are puppets and when those external forces want them to dance, they dance.
The PA and Hamas are different puppets played differently, by different hands, attached to *kind of* the same body (depending on how you want to define that).
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:59 pm to Burt Orangello
I can’t care your intentions, intelligent, or background, if you have a solution, spit it out because it’s alluded us for 3,000 years or so.
It’s a tar baby, quagmire, catch 22 situation, quicksand whatever. The solution is obviously in all three of the religious books from the area but that’s never going to happen
It’s a tar baby, quagmire, catch 22 situation, quicksand whatever. The solution is obviously in all three of the religious books from the area but that’s never going to happen
Posted on 10/9/23 at 2:00 pm to Burt Orangello
quote:
I said that's not true and you rebutted it with ...
You were replying to someone else and I was pointing out that regarding the current situation, yes, Hamas hasbhad majority support for a long time in Gaza.
Again, you're arguing semantics equating Gaza with Palestinians. We don't need you telling us that Gaza and the West Bank aren't the same.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 2:00 pm to dkreller
Well played Keller.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 2:01 pm to Burt Orangello
quote:
That's why there never has been and never will be a permanent peaceful solution...
Because the Arab world only understands brute force and violence.. Thats how they rule.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 2:02 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
What's the upside for Hamas?
Hamas didn't make the decision. Hamas is a puppet and was told to dance, so they danced. The puppetmaster(s) doesn't/don't care if there's upside for Hamas specifically ... because the upside is for the puppetmaster(s). They attacked Israel, but indirectly via proxy, so can cry foul if there's a response, and took no direct casualties themselves (not yet anyway...that very well may change).
That's the beauty of it. The puppet attacks and is attacked while the hand itself remains intact.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 2:03 pm to Burt Orangello
quote:
Hamas didn't make the decision.
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