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re: Is what the US did in WWII the most impressive thing a country’s ever done?
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:21 am to fr33manator
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:21 am to fr33manator
quote:
I’d argue that it brought about the fall of ALL the European powers and only really benfitted Russia and the US.
I’d like to hear you argue how it benefited Russia.
quote:
We pissed away the legacy of our forefathers for the siren song of Globalism.
True, but we already started pissing that away when we sent our boys over to even fight in WWI.
0
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:45 am to fr33manator
quote:
We pissed away the legacy of our forefathers for the siren song of Globalism.
Don't fret, we're still killing brown people decades behind us technologically.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:00 am to fr33manator
quote:
I wouldn’t use the word, “impressive”.
You have to have an understanding of The Russian people. Not that they had much of a choice, as it was being shot by Germans or shot by your own troops if you retreated.
One can at least admire their tenacity and bravery in the face of near certain doom.
They just threw men at the Germans until they were overwhelmed. That takes a certain amount of chutzpah
I understand all that fr33, but it’s not impressive to me to just throw numbers at the enemy. They constantly would make tactically idiotic decisions because of orders down from on high. I don’t need to tell you about Orders 270 and 227. And I don’t need to tell you that at some points, it’s more tactically useful to disengage from the enemy. The Russians did not do that and it cost them thousands or millions of more lives.
Couple that with Stalin not allowing cities like Stalingrad and Leningrad, etc. to evacuate and you get to the 27,000,000 number that people throw out.
The Soviet Union in WWII, while effective, was absurd in their prosecution of the war because their tyrannical leader continually threw away lives like they were chattel.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 9:48 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 9:13 am to TigerFanInSouthland
Macedonians under both Phillip II and Alexander the Great were pretty kick-arse.
Alexander the Great was simultaneously: King of Macedonia, Pharaoh of Egypt, King of Persia and King of Asia.
Alexander the Great was simultaneously: King of Macedonia, Pharaoh of Egypt, King of Persia and King of Asia.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 9:18 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
The Roman Empire maybe could’ve done that but I’m not so sure.
Well the Romans did it a bunch of times actually
They conquered Macedon at the same time they were fighting the Punic Wars against Carthage and dealing with Hannibal.
They also took over Spain in that time (which was mostly controlled by Carthage).
Trajan continued to gain territory up North into Germany and even England while conquering Dacia.
There's like a dozen other examples of Rome doing this
Posted on 5/14/19 at 9:20 am to madmaxvol
quote:
Macedonians under both Phillip II and Alexander the Great were pretty kick-arse.
Alexander the Great was simultaneously: King of Macedonia, Pharaoh of Egypt, King of Persia and King of Asia.
Yea but he never fought in two places at the same time. He just crushed everyone on his path to all out dominance.
Did you know he didn't even fight a battle the last 3 years of his conquests? Everywhere he went just basically gave up (or had already been conquered by him) after he turned around at the Hydaspes
Posted on 5/14/19 at 9:21 am to Amadeo
The soviets and to an extent the British Empire did frick up Hitler.
We fricked up the Japanese.
We fricked up the Japanese.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 9:49 am to stateofplay
quote:
The soviets and to an extent the British Empire did frick up Hitler.
The British aren’t winning that war without American help.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:06 am to TigerFanInSouthland
Did America and the Allies know (or at least have an idea) the extent of the lives lost during the Holocaust or were the actual figures not known until WWII was over?
Forgive my ignorance on the subject, I'm not an expert.
Forgive my ignorance on the subject, I'm not an expert.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:08 am to mynamebowl
I think some had an inkling of what was going on but it wasn’t widely reported until we came upon Dacchau Concentration Camp. At least that’s my understanding. I know there are a lot of Jews and other people in this country that absolutely loathe the New York Times for not reporting on it more heavily when they supposedly had knowledge of it.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:17 am to TigerFanInSouthland
So, the thought was that many of the people captured during Germany's early war invasions were still alive in camps somewhere?
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:19 am to mynamebowl
quote:
So, the thought was that many of the people captured during Germany's early war invasions were still alive in camps somewhere?
Churchill made a few speeches on Germany doing exterminations by the thousands.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:32 am to mynamebowl
quote:
So, the thought was that many of the people captured during Germany's early war invasions were still alive in camps somewhere?
I suppose so. I’m not so brushed up on the Holocaust itself in comparison to the actual war.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:45 am to TigerFanInSouthland
What I was curious about was the motivation for the US joining the fight in Europe against the Germans in the first place.
If the atrocities to the Jews, etc. weren't really known until after the war or near the end, the motivation had to be simply preventing the Germans from conquering Europe, right?
I guess what I wasn't sure about was if it was a human rights issue we were fighting against (The Holocaust), or just helping our Allies against a country run by a crazy dude.
If the atrocities to the Jews, etc. weren't really known until after the war or near the end, the motivation had to be simply preventing the Germans from conquering Europe, right?
I guess what I wasn't sure about was if it was a human rights issue we were fighting against (The Holocaust), or just helping our Allies against a country run by a crazy dude.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:54 am to TigerFanInSouthland
The gilded age
Incredibly rapid expansion of technology, growth and engineering knowledge
Incredibly rapid expansion of technology, growth and engineering knowledge
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:05 am to mynamebowl
quote:
What I was curious about was the motivation for the US joining the fight in Europe against the Germans in the first place. If the atrocities to the Jews, etc. weren't really known until after the war or near the end, the motivation had to be simply preventing the Germans from conquering Europe, right? I guess what I wasn't sure about was if it was a human rights issue we were fighting against (The Holocaust), or just helping our Allies against a country run by a crazy dude.
There were few reports about the camps but the American media and public thought they were too far fetched to be true.
The vast majority of the American populace and government outside of a handful (FDR being one) did not want to be involved in a war in Europe. Our people held strong in George Washington's belief in neutrality. Which is a damn good policy that if we don't have direct interests we shouldn't get involved.
Even after Pearl the American populace just wanted to go after Japan but when Germany declared war on the US (which they did due to the treaty they had with Japan) the US populace came around.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:05 am to mynamebowl
quote:
What I was curious about was the motivation for the US joining the fight in Europe against the Germans in the first place.
In an incredibly overly simplistic explanation, Germany declared war on us after Pearl Harbor, and we had a vested interest on the British and Soviets coming out on top.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:28 am to LB84
quote:
Our people held strong in George Washington's belief in neutrality. Which is a damn good policy that if we don't have direct interests we shouldn't get involved.
We have completely abandoned that line of thinking which is fricking maddening. Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt saw to that.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:49 am to mynamebowl
quote:
What I was curious about was the motivation for the US joining the fight in Europe against the Germans in the first place.
If the atrocities to the Jews, etc. weren't really known until after the war or near the end, the motivation had to be simply preventing the Germans from conquering Europe, right?
I guess what I wasn't sure about was if it was a human rights issue we were fighting against (The Holocaust), or just helping our Allies against a country run by a crazy dude.
I think you're forgetting the fact that Hitler declared war on the US.
Had he not declared war (a decision that has mixed opinions as to its validity) we likely would've stayed out of the European front. The sentiment within citizens and politicians was overly pacifist at the time.
Japan was a completely different story, obviously.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:55 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
We have completely abandoned that line of thinking which is fricking maddening. Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt saw to that.
Yep, the final nail in the coffin was Churchill's Iron Curtain speech. After that we started getting involved in many foreign conflicts trying to combat communism when communism would have failed on it's own.
If the US would just use the Monroe Doctrine and Washington's neutrality stance we'd probably be in a better place financially and wouldn't have upset a bunch of crazy goat herders on the other side of the world which is costing us trillions.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:56 am
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