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re: Is there a region more historically and culturally confusing than the Balkans?
Posted on 4/17/20 at 8:36 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Posted on 4/17/20 at 8:36 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
The Balkans, and the "Near East" in general, are places where the great Orient-vs.-Occident conflict of modernity gets played out. It's Russia or Turkey versus Germany, globalism versus nationalism, old versus new, etc.
The Serbs are proxies for the old, the Croats for the new.
Allegiances shift over time. In particular, the US and the UK change sides somewhat over time and place. The conflict of the present is within those countries, and within places like Turkey, over which side to take.
The Serbs are proxies for the old, the Croats for the new.
Allegiances shift over time. In particular, the US and the UK change sides somewhat over time and place. The conflict of the present is within those countries, and within places like Turkey, over which side to take.
0
Posted on 4/17/20 at 8:44 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
My wife's friend is married to a Serbian guy. I don't think even he really understands it.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 8:56 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
My peeps come from Dalmatia, and yes, the history is totally f’d up. If you think the war for independence and breakup of Yugoslavia was confusing—look at the history from 1797 to WWI. They went from being ruled by the Venetian Republic to Austria-Hungary to Napoleon to Austria again, followed by their own kingdom until WWII. The war for independence pitted multiple cultures and three big religions against each other and sometimes weird alliances took place that culminated in genocide.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 9:05 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:
Based on what I know, it seems to me that the Serbs frick everything up.
Gotta hand it to the Serbs, they ain’t afraid of a scrap. They kicked the absolute shite out of Austria-Hungary in WWI.
This post was edited on 4/17/20 at 9:08 pm
Posted on 4/17/20 at 9:08 pm to Celery
quote:
Pretty much the whole of India for me.
Lol yup. Just try making sense of this:
Posted on 4/17/20 at 9:09 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
There is not.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 9:16 pm to FeauxPaw
quote:
Lol yup. Just try making sense of this:
great example to show this:
In mathematics, the four color theorem, or the four color map theorem, states that, given any separation of a plane into contiguous regions, producing a figure called a map, no more than four colors are required to color the regions of the map so that no two adjacent regions have the same color.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 9:21 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Posted on 4/17/20 at 9:34 pm to FeauxPaw
If you compare India / Pakistan to Serbia / Croatia / Bosnia, there is a common theme:
Any two ethnic groups who write the same basic language in two different alphabets will hate each other.
Any two ethnic groups who write the same basic language in two different alphabets will hate each other.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 9:38 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Thanks for the recommendation, will start listening to this podcast tonight.
I know very little about the war and have always wanted to learn more. Hard to believe the genocide occurred in my lifetime.
I know very little about the war and have always wanted to learn more. Hard to believe the genocide occurred in my lifetime.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 9:45 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
What do you think Yugoslavia was?
It was a multicultural state, but the leaders pre WWII and post WWII did not enforce multiculturalism, they enforced the opposite.
Multiculturalism is the view that cultures, races, and ethnicities, particularly those of minority groups, deserve special acknowledgement of their differences within a dominant political culture. (from Encyclopedia Britannica)
King Alexander went so far as to ban the national flags of the nations of Yugoslavia, got rid of the historical regions and pushed for centralization. This is the opposite of multiculturalism.
Tito used Communism and his own Cult of Personality as a unifying force and there was some fake multiculturalism for propaganda purposes. But everyone understood that power was in Belgrade.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 10:21 pm to OleWar
Really underrated area to visit as a traveler. The history is visibly very fresh in places like Sarajevo and Belgrade.
Serb authorities at border crossings (and cab drivers) were very interested in my religion. I'm of Greek descent but had a thick beard at the time so they were clearly curious if I was a Muslim. As soon as I mentioned I'm an Orthodox Christian (grew up one anyway!) they were much friendlier.
Kotor, Montenegro is a stunning place. Bosnia is beautiful. Croatia obviously is too and plenty overrun by tourists now. Belgrade was a lot of fun in a sneaky way. Cevapi and borek are pretty delicious.
From what I recall, everyone spoke the same language basically but called it their own. Really really want to spend more time there. Don't think any amount of time visiting or education on the area's history though can explain why things have happened the way they have. Humans are complicated and capable of highly irrational and hateful things.
Serb authorities at border crossings (and cab drivers) were very interested in my religion. I'm of Greek descent but had a thick beard at the time so they were clearly curious if I was a Muslim. As soon as I mentioned I'm an Orthodox Christian (grew up one anyway!) they were much friendlier.
Kotor, Montenegro is a stunning place. Bosnia is beautiful. Croatia obviously is too and plenty overrun by tourists now. Belgrade was a lot of fun in a sneaky way. Cevapi and borek are pretty delicious.
From what I recall, everyone spoke the same language basically but called it their own. Really really want to spend more time there. Don't think any amount of time visiting or education on the area's history though can explain why things have happened the way they have. Humans are complicated and capable of highly irrational and hateful things.
Posted on 4/18/20 at 1:31 am to Tigerbait46
That's awesome that you got to visit. It is over twenty years since I was there in less than ideal circumstances. Saw some really horrid things, but I have fond memories of the Serbs, Albanians and even Gypsies.
This post was edited on 4/18/20 at 1:32 am
Posted on 4/18/20 at 6:34 am to FeauxPaw
quote:
Lol yup. Just try making sense of this:
I banged a Gujarati girl.
Posted on 4/18/20 at 7:11 am to MidnightVibe
How’s she smell?
Posted on 4/18/20 at 7:33 am to TN Bhoy
quote:
I’ve been to the Balkans a lot, and love the people.
That being said, place has been fricked since the Romans. It lost the global location lottery.
Didn't a whole bunch of the Roman emperors come from there (or at least were born there)? The area probably enjoyed some perks and favors during that time period.
Posted on 4/18/20 at 7:37 am to TigerFanInSouthland
I’m listening to the series right now. Just started and am half way through the first episode. His complete dismissal/characterization of nationalism as this arbitrary decision seems pretty condescending.
I’m going to listen to the whole series but it seems like he’s framing this to make a broader political statement about today
I’m going to listen to the whole series but it seems like he’s framing this to make a broader political statement about today
Posted on 4/18/20 at 10:14 am to FeauxPaw
And that map is why the current Indian president is pushing Hindu nationalism.
Posted on 4/18/20 at 10:19 am to TigerFanInSouthland
We call it Balkanization for a reason. It’s a geographical and cultural recipe for disaster. Watching that unfold every day on tv was some ugly shite. And let’s not forget Rwanda.
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