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Message
re: Inside story of the Nagasaki mission
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:33 pm to mizzoukills
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:33 pm to mizzoukills
quote:
To be fair, we could've detonated them just off the coast of Japan to reduce casualties but to demonstrate our power. I believe that detonating them 1 - 5 miles off coast or in a harbor would've resulted in their surrender.
I doubt this highly.
0
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:37 pm to LSU5803
quote:
try reading "The Rape of Nanking" for starters
I think there's a very good argument that what the Japanese did to Nanking was far worse than what we did to either Hiroshima or Nagasaki...
quote:
In December of 1937, the Japanese Imperial Army marched into China's capital city of Nanking and proceeded to murder 300,000 out of 600,000 civilians and soldiers in the city. The six weeks of carnage would become known as the Rape of Nanking and represented the single worst atrocity during the World War II era in either the European or Pacific theaters of war.
quote:
Their first concern was to eliminate any threat from the 90,000 Chinese soldiers who surrendered.
quote:
The elimination of the Chinese POWs began after they were transported by trucks to remote locations on the outskirts of Nanking. As soon as they were assembled, the savagery began, with young Japanese soldiers encouraged by their superiors to inflict maximum pain and suffering upon individual POWs as a way of toughening themselves up for future battles, and also to eradicate any civilized notions of mercy
quote:
After the destruction of the POWs, the soldiers turned their attention to the women of Nanking and an outright animalistic hunt ensued. Old women over the age of 70 as well as little girls under the age of 8 were dragged off to be sexually abused. More than 20,000 females (with some estimates as high as 80,000) were gang-raped by Japanese soldiers, then stabbed to death with bayonets or shot so they could never bear witness.
Pregnant women were not spared. In several instances, they were raped, then had their bellies slit open and the fetuses torn out. Sometimes, after storming into a house and encountering a whole family, the Japanese forced Chinese men to rape their own daughters, sons to rape their mothers, and brothers their sisters, while the rest of the family was made to watch.
quote:
The incredible carnage - citywide burnings, stabbings, drownings, strangulations, rapes, thefts, and massive property destruction - continued unabated for about six weeks, from mid-December 1937 through the beginning of February 1938. Young or old, male or female, anyone could be shot on a whim by any Japanese soldier for any reason. Corpses could be seen everywhere throughout the city. The streets of Nanking were said to literally have run red with blood.
There's plenty of pictures out there of what the Japanese did in Nanking if you want to Google them. I won't post any here though. They're beyond sadistic and disgusting.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:40 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:not yours dumbass
Darth_Vader
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:43 pm to Jim Rockford
In no way questioning the decision, it had to be done, it was our lives vs theirs.
That being said, I googled pictures of "little boy" and google suggested that I view pictures of birth defects resulting from the bomb. Very disturbing.
Human intelligence is remarkable and it's insane that as far as we've come, a primary motive of our advancement is how to kill our enemies.
That being said, I googled pictures of "little boy" and google suggested that I view pictures of birth defects resulting from the bomb. Very disturbing.
Human intelligence is remarkable and it's insane that as far as we've come, a primary motive of our advancement is how to kill our enemies.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:46 pm to CidCock
quote:
That being said, I googled pictures of "little boy" and google suggested that I view pictures of birth defects resulting from the bomb. Very disturbing.
Keep in mind though that you're looking at this with the benefit of hindsight on the matter. In 1945 the long term effects of radioactive fallout were not very well understood.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:47 pm to mizzoukills
quote:
To be fair, we could've detonated them just off the coast of Japan to reduce casualties but to demonstrate our power. I believe that detonating them 1 - 5 miles off coast or in a harbor would've resulted in their surrender.
That wouldn't have helped a future invasion if they hadn't surrendered. So would have been a huge waste of very limited resources if they didn't. And the stakes were pretty big.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:50 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Keep in mind though that you're looking at this with the benefit of hindsight on the matter. In 1945 the long term effects of radioactive fallout were not very well understood.
Oh yeah, no doubt about it. Just crazy that our actions, although altruistic in our case, can have such far reaching effects.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:51 pm to USMCTiger03
quote:
That wouldn't have helped a future invasion if they hadn't surrendered. So would have been a huge waste of very limited resources if they didn't. And the stakes were pretty big.
Exactly. Remember, we were hoping the use of the bombs would compel Japan to surrender. But we had no way of knowing if they'd keep fighting on even after they'd been dropped. That's a big part of the reason why Hiroshima was chosen for the first attack. Knocking out that city basically decapitated the Japanese army in all of southern Japan a took out a huge portion of their ammo & supply dumps as well. And had it come to an invasion, Southern Japan would have been where the first phase would have been launched.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:06 pm to CidCock
War is Hell.
Japan, even knowing the long-term effects, would have had no compunctions about dropping as many atom bombs as it would've taken to get America to surrender.
Then, they would've dropped a few more.
Japan, even knowing the long-term effects, would have had no compunctions about dropping as many atom bombs as it would've taken to get America to surrender.
Then, they would've dropped a few more.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:07 pm to CidCock
Can you imagine the long term effects of an invasion? And not just in X million people dying. The world today would look much different. Japan would likely not exist to any significant degree and the loss of so many American men would have set our own nation back devastatingly, ie, men not going home to raise families, work, pay taxes...a huge loss in many ways.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:11 pm to USMCTiger03
quote:
USMCTiger03
Yeah, it's a tough thought. Again, I'm in now way saying that it wasn't the right thing. In a lot of ways, it may have been more humane than an invasion.
It still is just crazy what man is capable of.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:16 pm to East Coast Band
quote:
The second bombing was entirely unnecessary.
50,000 people would disagree with you
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:20 pm to USMCTiger03
Instead, we loaned them money, showed them quality manufacturing techniques, provided military support, and become their leading trading partner.
All far more than they deserve...
All far more than they deserve...
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:20 pm to Jim Rockford
Look here, Pkin, I feel your pain on this issue. It's certainly horrible what happened to the Japanese people during WW2.
The Japanese people were taken and held hostage by a vicious military dictatorship, it is true, but that vicious military dictatorship was the Government of Japan.
Japan's own Government prosecuted the war. Japan's own Government persecuted its own people and ruthlessly crushed dissent. Japan's own Government - this military dictatorship - propagated torture and atrocities of the most barbaric nature in modern times.
And, finally, with regard to the terrible necessity of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we must lay the blame at the feet of the entity that started, prosecuted and sustained the war at the total expense of its own people - the Government of Japan.
The Japanese people were taken and held hostage by a vicious military dictatorship, it is true, but that vicious military dictatorship was the Government of Japan.
Japan's own Government prosecuted the war. Japan's own Government persecuted its own people and ruthlessly crushed dissent. Japan's own Government - this military dictatorship - propagated torture and atrocities of the most barbaric nature in modern times.
And, finally, with regard to the terrible necessity of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we must lay the blame at the feet of the entity that started, prosecuted and sustained the war at the total expense of its own people - the Government of Japan.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:51 pm to Breesus
I understand how both bombs were necessary to end the war. And save American lives.
However the collective e-boner people in this thread have over dropping a nuclear bomb is disturbing.
However the collective e-boner people in this thread have over dropping a nuclear bomb is disturbing.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 1:51 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Because of complexity, they tested the implosion "Fat Man" design at Trinity ("The Gadget"). I've always been intrigued by nuclear weapons and it amazes me they didn't feel the need to test the uranium gun design of Little Boy because they knew it was a foolproof design, but with a limited yield potential.
Plus, they didn't have enough U-235 to perform a field test.
But you are right, they were sure the U-235 gun design was going to work. For the muzzle velocity they could achieve, the spontaneous fission rate wouldn't cause predetonation and thus a fizzle (that being the problem with Pu), and the "tickling the dragon's tail" experiment indicated it would work if they just managed to fire the U-235 bullet accurately into the U-235 target. 
Posted on 8/6/15 at 2:05 pm to Pkin
Ahh, the comfort 70 years, a lack of context and ignorance provides people like you.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 2:06 pm to Pkin
quote:
Soldier on soldier combat is different than a-bombing two cities. America is better than that. I'll always stand by that.
IS that what you will tell ISIS?
Posted on 8/6/15 at 2:14 pm to Pkin
quote:
Soldier on soldier combat is different than a-bombing two cities. America is better than that. I'll always stand by that.
Assuming we land on main land Japan and they as fanatical as we believed them to be. Our soldiers are likely going to have to fight women and children who were indoctrinated with idea that american was coming to rape and pillage
Posted on 8/6/15 at 2:28 pm to Jim Rockford
There is not 1 single nuclear weapon in existence that has Baton Rouge as it's target so I could care less if there was a nuclear war. Now if you live in a place where it is an absolute certainty that there is a nuclear bomb with your coordinates coded, then you probably care about this issue.
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