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Started By
Message
re: I'm taking legal action against the Office of Motor Vehicles
Posted on 11/11/24 at 7:35 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 11/11/24 at 7:35 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Why would your son ever choose to pay 7.5-15% of his income over his working life as a tax, while excluding himself from SS?
Reading through the thread, you will see my son doesn't have a job. To date, he has never had a job. Therefore, he has no earnings that can be taxed.
You hit the nail on the head though with the comment "why would your son ever choose". He can choose. I'm giving him that choice. Tomorrow, if he says "Dad, I understand the ramifications of this and I want to get a social security number", I'd drive him to the office and we'd sign up, no problem.
It's all about it being his choice. As long as he doesn't have a social security number, I'm going to make sure he's not penalized for it because of some bureaucratic box that needs to be checked to satisfy some imaginary rule that is in violation of the law.
He is suffering exactly ZERO repercussions from this to date. None... He's received every right and benefit that everyone else has.
The fact that no one on here has questioned the requirement for a social security number is hilarious to me.
3
Posted on 11/11/24 at 7:56 am to eitek1
quote:What are the ramifications that he needs to understand?
Dad, I understand the ramifications of this
quote:So getting his permit hasn’t been delayed?
He is suffering exactly ZERO repercussions from this to date.
This post was edited on 11/11/24 at 7:58 am
Posted on 11/11/24 at 7:59 am to eitek1
quote:so why is he choosing not to have a SSN now?
He can choose. I'm giving him that choice. Tomorrow, if he says "Dad, I understand the ramifications of this and I want to get a social security number", I'd drive him to the office and we'd sign up, no problem.
Posted on 11/11/24 at 7:59 am to eitek1
quote:
you will see my son doesn't have a job.
Irrelevant to my question unless he's never going to have a job.
Are you going to avoid answering my question for the 5th time?
Posted on 11/11/24 at 8:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Are you going to avoid answering my question for the 5th time?
quote]Why would your son ever choose to pay 7.5-15% of his income over his working life as a tax, while excluding himself from SS?[/quote]
I've answered this question at least a few times in this thread already but I will address you directly for your convenience.
There is a possibility my son never has to get a regular job. Although I've not studied this a lot, I believe there are certain classes of income that are exempt from social security taxes.
If he has to pay the tax, it would be insane not to collect on the back end. That would be a bad financial decision.
Posted on 11/11/24 at 8:35 am to eitek1
quote:
Dad, I understand the ramifications of this
What are the ramifications that he needs to understand?
quote:
He is suffering exactly ZERO repercussions from this to date.
So getting his permit hasn’t been delayed?
Posted on 11/11/24 at 8:41 am to eitek1
quote:if that’s the case having a SSN won’t change anything or advantage your son in any way. All it will do is cause situations like the one you now face
There is a possibility my son never has to get a regular job. Although I've not studied this a lot, I believe there are certain classes of income that are exempt from social security taxes.
Posted on 11/11/24 at 8:44 am to cgrand
It is undoubtedly true that the use of the SSN has expanded well beyond its statutory use. It remains voluntary to provide it when asked…just as it remains voluntary for the agency or business that’s asking to do business with you.
A DL is not a right
A DL is not a right
Posted on 11/11/24 at 8:50 am to WDE24
quote:
So getting his permit hasn’t been delayed?
Technically he has been delayed from getting his TIP card. I don't expect it to delay his ability to get his license on his 16th birthday, so no he's not experiencing any repercussions.
Posted on 11/11/24 at 8:52 am to TheMollusk
All the smooth brained OTtards thinking if they didn't get a SSN they wouldn't have had t pay SS tax
Posted on 11/11/24 at 8:53 am to eitek1
quote:You picked the last sentence of a subsection. Here's the full text with some fun phrases underlined:
I'm curious why you would think that.
This specific statement below is in 32:409.1
The department shall not deny any person a driver's license or a renewal if that person has not obtained a government-issued social security number based on Section 7 of Pub. L. 93-579 Section
This is exactly what the DMV is doing. How is that not relevant? It's also specifically against federal law as well.
quote:
(vi) Social security number. Any alien individual residing in Louisiana who does not possess and is ineligible to obtain a social security number shall not be required to furnish a social security number for issuance of a Class "E" driver's license. However, prior to the issuance of a Class "E" driver's license, in addition to other required documentation, the department shall require the alien individual to present a document demonstrating lawful presence in the United States in a status in which the alien individual may be ineligible to obtain a social security number. The list of acceptable documents demonstrating lawful presence shall be determined by the department. The department shall maintain confidentiality of an applicant's social security number. The department shall not deny any person a driver's license or a renewal if that person has not obtained a government-issued social security number based on Section 7 of Pub. L. 93-579 Section (a)(1).
F you for wasting the court's time and the tax payer's dollars. I hope you have to pay court costs.
Posted on 11/11/24 at 8:54 am to cgrand
quote:
A DL is not a right
You are absolutely correct. And per the Privacy act, and Louisiana law, they can't arbitrarily deny him any right or PRIVILEGE because he doesn't produce one.
I have a question for everyone... Why would the state even care what your social security number is? They didn't care in '86 when I got my license because I didn't have a SS number then.
Why would it even matter?
Posted on 11/11/24 at 8:57 am to FearTheFish
quote:
F you for wasting the court's time and the tax payer's dollars. I hope you have to pay court costs.
I have read the entire section 1000 times. Since you're legal opinion is so sound on this issue, please explain how the last sentence doesn't apply to my son.
Posted on 11/11/24 at 8:57 am to eitek1
quote:
so no he's not experiencing any repercussions.
You don't think the stress about this whole process and you having to file suit to get him a permit is not having any repercussions? Just admit you've made your son's life more complicated to prove a dumb point against the government.
Posted on 11/11/24 at 9:00 am to eitek1
quote:
Dad, I understand the ramifications of this
What are the ramifications that he needs to understand?
Posted on 11/11/24 at 9:04 am to eitek1
quote:
I have read the entire section 1000 times. Since you're legal opinion is so sound on this issue, please explain how the last sentence doesn't apply to my son.
Really curious if this is going to work. I read the excerpt as if you can't be denied one for not having a social security number if you don't have a legal way of obtaining one. I don't see how you can separate that last sentence from the context of all the preceding paragraph.
Not bashing you. Best of luck.
ETA: Privacy Act of 1974. Public Law 93-579. Section 7 as referenced in a previous post:
*SECTION 7
(a)
(1)
It shall be unlawful for any Federal, state, or local government agency to deny to
any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such
individual's refusal to disclose his social security account number.
25
(2)
to-
(b)
the provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not apply with respect
(A)
(B)
any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or
the disclosure of a social security number to any Federal, State, or local
agency maintaining a system of records in existence and operating before
January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was required under statute or regulation
adopted prior to such date to verify the identity of an individual.
If I'm reading this right, if Louisiana required it before Jan 1, 1975, then they possibly can still lawfully require it.
This post was edited on 11/11/24 at 9:18 am
Posted on 11/11/24 at 9:08 am to FearTheFish
quote:They don’t have a stellar track record of this either.
The department shall maintain confidentiality of an applicant's social security number.
quote:
Louisiana DMV ID Data Loss According to official sources, a massive cyber attack on the Louisiana Office of Motor Vehicles (OMV) has compromised the personal information of all Louisianans with a state-issued driver’s license, ID, or car registration. The breach, attributed to a Russian-speaking hacking group called CL0P, exposed sensitive data including: Names Addresses Social Security numbers Birthdates Height Weight Eye color Driver’s license numbers Vehicle registration information Recommendations for Affected Individuals To protect their identities, Louisiana officials urge residents to take immediate action:
This post was edited on 11/11/24 at 9:16 am
Posted on 11/11/24 at 9:10 am to eitek1
Because one sentence out of context doesn't make you right. You have to read the entire subsection.
Don't worry, a judge will explain it to you.
Don't worry, a judge will explain it to you.
Posted on 11/11/24 at 9:10 am to Bullfrog
quote:
They don’t have a stellar track record of this either.
That was the second time that has happened BTW, it happened in 2017 as well.
Posted on 11/11/24 at 9:20 am to FearTheFish
Here is the entire subsection and it's a little ambiguous because of the formatting, not the text. Read it like this...
(vi) Social security number. Any alien individual residing in Louisiana who does not possess and is ineligible to obtain a social security number shall not be required to furnish a social security number for issuance of a Class "E" driver's license. However, prior to the issuance of a Class "E" driver's license, in addition to other required documentation, the department shall require the alien individual to present a document demonstrating lawful presence in the United States in a status in which the alien individual may be ineligible to obtain a social security number. The list of acceptable documents demonstrating lawful presence shall be determined by the department.
The department shall maintain confidentiality of an applicant's social security number. The department shall not deny any person a driver's license or a renewal if that person has not obtained a government-issued social security number based on Section 7 of Pub. L. 93-579 Section (a)(1).
In every other place in the text, a regular American/Louisiana citizen is referred to as "the applicant". In the portions that apply to "Alien Individuals" they are referred to as "Alien Individuals". Read 409.1 in it's entirety and you'll see the difference.
Also the first sentence in the second paragraph clearly isn't talking about "Alien Individuals" anymore. These are instructions to the DMV. The instructions to the DMV are very clear that they can't deny someone a license.
(vi) Social security number. Any alien individual residing in Louisiana who does not possess and is ineligible to obtain a social security number shall not be required to furnish a social security number for issuance of a Class "E" driver's license. However, prior to the issuance of a Class "E" driver's license, in addition to other required documentation, the department shall require the alien individual to present a document demonstrating lawful presence in the United States in a status in which the alien individual may be ineligible to obtain a social security number. The list of acceptable documents demonstrating lawful presence shall be determined by the department.
The department shall maintain confidentiality of an applicant's social security number. The department shall not deny any person a driver's license or a renewal if that person has not obtained a government-issued social security number based on Section 7 of Pub. L. 93-579 Section (a)(1).
In every other place in the text, a regular American/Louisiana citizen is referred to as "the applicant". In the portions that apply to "Alien Individuals" they are referred to as "Alien Individuals". Read 409.1 in it's entirety and you'll see the difference.
Also the first sentence in the second paragraph clearly isn't talking about "Alien Individuals" anymore. These are instructions to the DMV. The instructions to the DMV are very clear that they can't deny someone a license.
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