re: I don't know which Mormon came up with the idea of soaking

so first you call Mohammed a “random pedophile” without offering any evidence other than your opinion (he may very have been, I have no idea and likely neither do you), and now you’re insinuating the same as to me.

one of us has pedophilia on the mind and it ain’t me or Mohammed. And that’s par for the course in Catholicism

Debating salvation on an anonymous forum is never a good idea, but my previous offer stands for anyone reading this. To do any less would be refusing the Great Commission.

That said, He also said to shake the dust from your sandals and move along.

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'The idea behind it is if it's just in but there's no moving back and forth, no movement, then it's not a sin.'

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Said by someone whom I assume believes that everything in the known universe spontaneously appeared from nothing then over time that nothing went from simple atoms to complex organisms. Still unproven an unable to replicate and stated as a 'theory' because it can not be proven. At least those who believe in Intelligent design and something they knowingly can't comprehend stand on something.

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You obviously don’t understand what science is and I think I’d be wasting my time trying to explain it to you because you don’t want to know. You couch your opinions of everything upon what you consider to be the truths of your faith. I did that, too, for many years but I never closed the door to science.

Eventually, I learned enough to know that I had been lied to by the religious community. Religion operates on fear and power masked as love and caring. In the 21st century, it has become as capitalistic as any corporation. In fact, mega churches are de facto businesses and should be taxed as such. They exist solely to make their owners and sponsors rich.

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Everyone puts their faith in something. Casting stones unprovoked at the faith of others and hurling insults in an effort to discredit their faith only shows the shakiness of one's own faith. You have your faith, others have theirs. If yours is truly in the right, then why do you feel the need to discredit others as opposed to holding steadfast to yours? At least in the Christian and Islamic tenants teaching of their faith is meant as a way to save others in an after-life.

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Again, your faith is so strong (your brainwashing is so complete, from my perspective) that you can only see the world as your religious rulers want you to see it. No doubt you were groomed from childhood, as I was, and then guided into an adulthood that fit with the requirements of your particular brand of Christianity (there are 41,000 versions in the US alone).

I don’t condemn you because I know you didn’t choose this path for your life. However, I have to oppose you in order to protect my rights of free thought. I rebelled against the way I was taught to live and am at peace with what I have learned about life through science. You are free to live your life with all the constraints that your religion has imposed upon it. I could never do that again now that I know there is truth in science, in nature.

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In fact, the church embraces science as it helps us understand God’s creation.

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It does now that science is a bonafide threat to religion. The history of the Catholic Church is the same as all religions, however. Power and control by any means necessary has been the modus operandi of the elites of religion. Torture, banishment, murder and war in the name of god are common themes for all religions that gained power over a population.

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That said, science can only go so far. Science doesn’t explain life at all. We know how it works, but we don’t and can’t truly understand it.

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What’s not to understand? Life is no mystery. From a reductionist view, life is merely a stage of chemical evolution, a very complex stage.

When the earth formed, all the conditions for the evolution of life existed. The chemicals for life were all present and a steady source of energy was being supplied by the sun.

Chemical evolution began and within a half-billion years, it became so complex that geochemistry became biochemistry, and life began. It has since continued to evolve into greater complexity. From that complexity has arisen a chemical assemblage that can not only reproduce its structure, but can also ponder its origins and creations.

The next stage in the evolution of chemical complexity is at hand, technochemistry, or AI. So geochemistry evolved into biochemistry and one of the resulting assemblages is creating technochemistry. This AI will begin to design itself and, before long, its complexity will go off the charts, far beyond our ability to understand it. But not beyond its ability to understand itself.

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By the way, the guy that came up with the Big Bang theory was a devout Catholic priest.

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Georges Lemaître lived in a time of transition involving science and religion. The weight of scientific discoveries had, in the 19th and early 20th centuries pushed religion off its tyrannical throne. However, it was still a powerful enemy of science and the best path for scientists to follow was to appease theists by making discoveries less threatening to the social hierarchy where religion still ruled at the top, though with less force and credibility.

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So, stop using science as a basis for discrediting organized religion.

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Sorry, can’t do that. We are still living in the transition from religion to science. There will be more backlashes like the current one against science in our culture. If religion is to take its proper place at the fringes of our society, it must be confronted at every opportunity.

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There is absolutely Truth in science, because God is Truth and He created all things including “science”.

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There are no absolutes in science. There are no such entities as gods, only people (almost always men) who want to act “on god’s behalf.”

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There are no such entities as gods, only people (almost always men) who want to act “on god’s behalf.”

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What a sad life you must live to have hope in nothing. I pity you and hope some day you will have a relegation about Truth.

Intelligent design can be observed in all things. I suppose you think all of this just happened randomly out of nothing. Frankly, it takes more faith in your “science religion” than it does for me to believe in God.

Explain why someone would lay down their life for another. That is the opposite of self preservation instinct. It is because of love. You can attribute it to chemicals, hormones, or whatever other nonsense you prescribe to, but science will never be able to answer that one.

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What a sad life you must live to have hope in nothing. I pity you and hope some day you will have a relegation about Truth.

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I don’t think relegation means what you think it means. I’m hoping you meant revelation.

That amusement aside, you display the arrogance of the completely brainwashed theist. You have all the answers you need and bristle with indignation when someone challenges them. There’s no hope that you will ever know reality.

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Intelligent design can be observed in all things. I suppose you think all of this just happened randomly out of nothing. Frankly, it takes more faith in your “science religion” than it does for me to believe in God.

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You see what you’re been taught to see. Your vision is entirely subjective. Pity.

Your declaration that you must have strong faith to believe in a god is an admission that there’s no evidence for its existence.

Science requires no faith. The same discoveries can be made by any intelligent species in the universe.

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Explain why someone would lay down their life for another. That is the opposite of self preservation instinct. It is because of love. You can attribute it to chemicals, hormones, or whatever other nonsense you prescribe to, but science will never be able to answer that one.

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Emotions can be powerful enough to overcome self-preservation in many species, not just ours. This is an example of theist arrogance. The idea that humans are special and separate from the natural world, supernatural even.

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I’m hoping you meant revelation.

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Yes, relegation. Stupid auto correct.

I have a lot of pity for you. You seem like a miserable person bent on attacking people of faith. It is a real shame. The reality is that you think you know everything and leave no room for other possibilities or even compatible possibilities. You seem to be a prideful “I know better than everyone else” type of person.

I am not attacking you for believing in science. I believe in science as much as you do.

I truly do pray for people like you. I hope you can find happiness and something greater than yourself to put faith in.

If you are so inclined, you should research Eucharistic miracles. That is something science has been unable to explain.

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lol at how a discussion on “soaking” turned into a religion / anti religion debate.

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First day on the OT?

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Many of the stories are stupid...but the whole dude found golden tablets, lost them and started a religion relatively recently in north America is especially dumb

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And to boot, God apparently told him he could marry his followers wives and young girls! More than 30 in all….That’s a sweet religion for Joseph Smith!