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re: How to find out if the bookkeeper is embezzling?

Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:17 pm to
Posted by SabiDojo
Open to any suggestions.
Member since Nov 2010
84835 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:17 pm to
You could hire an auditor
Posted by Purplehaze
spring, tx
Member since Dec 2003
2393 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:19 pm to
FICA is 6.2%

Medicaire is 1.45%

Go to IRS.GOV. download the withholding tables. You must know what you are claiming, eg. S-1, M-2.

Use the tables to determine the range being withheld. it is not precise but close enough.

but only a idiot would try and embezzle using payroll taxes.

Companies who are victims of embezzlement usually have themselves to blame. they allow the same person to open the mail, apply the cash and then also control the disbursement by being allowed to sign the checks going out.
Posted by ULSU
Tasmania
Member since Jan 2014
3931 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:20 pm to
quote:

Perlis bookkeeper was only taking a few grand a month too.....


I know of this happening at construction companies, doctors offices....happens all the time. Yes, it's only a few thousand, that's how they keep it going and don't get caught until they've stolen a hundred K
Posted by CCTider
Member since Dec 2014
25239 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:21 pm to
Am I the only one who thinks this dude is an alter?
Posted by jack6294
Greater Baton Rouge Area
Member since Jan 2007
4033 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:21 pm to
When in doubt FIRE her. I suspected for years and should've fired her then. Took me for a pretty penny. Courts did nothing. Waste of time
Posted by sleepytime
Member since Feb 2014
3934 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:23 pm to
quote:

RegisteredPharmacist


If someone is embezzling money, you better audit your controlled substance inventory too.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
82359 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:28 pm to
quote:

but only a idiot would try and embezzle using payroll taxes.


Yep. There are a dozen better ways.

If you have a company Paypal account she could be buying office supplies from bogus vendors. If you take a lot of cash and pay cash for some business expenses, you have a huge security hole that can be abused. As someone else pointed out, your controlled substances are a very attractive target.

Don't fire anyone. Just make sure you have a system of checks and balances.
Posted by RegisteredPharmacist
Member since Apr 2016
830 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:29 pm to
We've never been missing over 5% of the schedule II's & lll's. (Which is the legal amount to come up short on)

And thank you everyone for the feedback on the subject at hand.
Posted by dgnx6
Member since Feb 2006
91588 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:31 pm to
No way in hell that is happening. IRS would have been all over that.

Tell them instead of bitching about it, take action in the polls and get people in charge who will stop taking from the people that work hard.
Posted by JumpingTheShark
America
Member since Nov 2012
24863 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:31 pm to
This is why separation of duties is important. You can hire an auditor to look at this exact activity. Am doing this for a client right now actually.

Separate people who do bank reconciliations, process payroll, make check disbursements, and handle petty cash.
This post was edited on 6/20/16 at 8:35 pm
Posted by RegisteredPharmacist
Member since Apr 2016
830 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:32 pm to
How is paying cash for business expenses a major security hole?

She's not stealing narcotics.
Posted by JumpingTheShark
America
Member since Nov 2012
24863 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:33 pm to
quote:

How is paying cash for business expenses a major security hole?


Less of an audit trail.
Posted by Bullfrog
Running Through the Wet Grass
Member since Jul 2010
61789 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:34 pm to
She could be buying from her own supply company at inflated prices.
Posted by southernelite
Houston, TX
Member since Sep 2009
53568 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:34 pm to
Because taking cash to pay business expenses leaves a hole for theft.
Posted by jack6294
Greater Baton Rouge Area
Member since Jan 2007
4033 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:36 pm to
Cash is how mine took me for $250K over 10 years. Yes I'm an idiot
Posted by mach316
Northeast Arkansas
Member since Jul 2012
4962 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:39 pm to
Tell them to just pay Obama and shut the hell up.
Posted by RegisteredPharmacist
Member since Apr 2016
830 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:44 pm to
She has to file the reciepts for these purchases which are checked... And we're not going to pay cash for any business expenses for over around $100. It's rare we pay cash for business expenses but sometimes it happens...
Posted by JumpingTheShark
America
Member since Nov 2012
24863 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:47 pm to
I thought you said the issue was in her potentially skimming payroll taxes from paychecks?
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
82359 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:47 pm to
quote:

Because taking cash to pay business expenses leaves a hole for theft.



Yep. Pay $300 cash for something, take $100 for yourself. If nobody's watching, you'll never notice the missing cash. There will likely be a few receipts missing or with faded ink at the end of the year.

Plus not all of your cash receipts go to the bank at the end of the day. Some cash stays on site for making change or petty cash expenses. So even if you go back and look at the end of day register reports, the deposits won't match exactly. And if there isn't a daily reconciliation, you won't be able to tell when there was too little cash. And you won't know if it's the bookkeeper or cashier who's responsible.

If your suspicions are based on tax withholding, you're worried about nothing. If something else is hinky, check into it further.
Posted by RegisteredPharmacist
Member since Apr 2016
830 posts
Posted on 6/20/16 at 8:56 pm to
I mean, yeah... I did say that but that appears not to be the problem from what I've read on here... This woman is suspicious as hell... Does not show signs of drug abuse or anything like that... I've heard her mention something about going to the casino numerous times though.
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