re: How long is too long to be an undergrad? + opinions

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Median earnings with a bachelor's degree: $50,000

Median earnings with a hs diploma: $30,500

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That's inherently flawed logic. Are the people with degrees on average smarter and more driven those those without? That might have more to do with the success than the degree itself.

Have you broken out incomes by degree? You'll realize the type of degree matters more than the degree.

Instead of comparing those with just a hs education, how about compare it to those that have gone to trade schools or work in fields that require training programs but not degrees. Those people will also be intelligent and driven. It's a more relevant comparison.

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For the average graduate, going to college is a wonderfully profitable investment. The evidence is unambiguous. Even after subtracting tuition and all the years of foregone salary, the pay boost from a degree will still pay for itself, and then some. The problem is that the "average" college student doesn’t really exist; she’s an imaginary amalgam of state school grads and Ivy League alums, of education majors and engineering nerds.

Once you ignore averages, and start looking across the entire earnings spectrum, the question of whether higher education is financially worthwhile for everybody becomes more complicated. Recently, researchers from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York noted that the bottom 25 percent of college degree holders basically earn no more than the median worker who ended his or her education after high school.

Other researchers have made similar observations. In a lengthy review of the literature on the economic value of college, for instance, Philip Oreopoulos and Uros Petronijevic point out that among Americans between the ages 30 and 50, the median college graduate earns less annually than the top 10 percent of high school grads.

The bottom line: A large minority of college grads earn like high school grads. So what do we make of that fact?

One possible interpretation is that college simply isn’t worth it for a chunk of students, even if they graduate. That may be true to a degree. There are some young adults who would probably end up wealthier if they learned a trade or pursued a technical degree from a community college than they would by majoring in communications at, say, a nonselective state school.

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When College Grads Earn Like High School Grads

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I'd like to see the median income of non stem degrees versus people with trades like electricians, welders, carpenter's, etc

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I don't think it would be that far apart, unless you include healthcare degrees in STEM.

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Starting out? Maybe. But the degree gives you access to higher level jobs that you wouldn’t have at a restaurant, not to mention the benefits, which these days are basically a second salary with the skyrocketing costs of insurance.

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But we're not comparing a guy sitting on a couch to a guy with a degree in Accounting. We're comparing a guy who learned an actual trade (in demand) to a guy who just gets any random degree. Which is what you're suggesting. That any degree is good enough (to fall back on).

I look at it this way: How much money will you make before retirement if you learn a trade and start working right out of hs VS if you go to school and begin your career later. Also subtract the cost of school. If your degree will allow you to make more then do that. If not, then learn a valuable trade.

Why are we pretending that there aren't thousands of students with worthless degrees working at restaurants and dead-end jobs while also being $150k+ in debt? They are not better off than someone who learned a trade.

"Just get a degree" is not good advice.

When you get to your 30s and beyond you're going to realize that a year or two is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

So to sum this up, you got a 26 or 27 on your ACT, didn't want to "settle" for an SEC school or SMU, went to CC for one semester before dropping out, but still have aspirations of getting into UT?

Seems like your ego really screwed you on this one. Barring a miracle, UT isn't going to happen. Be realistic and find the school that's right for you that will accept you.

To the OP, it is.

What's it about to you?

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Why are we pretending that there aren't thousands of students with worthless degrees working at restaurants and dead-end jobs while also being $150k+ in debt? They are not better off than someone who learned a trade.

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the average student debt load is about 30k, so this is an outlier.

average wages for most trades hovers around $20/hour despite the OT's claims.

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the average student debt load is about 30k, so this is an outlier.

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Also this, not sure where the 150k number came from. You could not work, live in the dorms on campus, get a meal plan every semester, and still come out of a 4 year school well under 150k of debt. He’s not talking about going to Harvard or Duke here.

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the average student debt load is about 30k, so this is an outlier.

average wages for most trades hovers around $20/hour despite the OT's claims.

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The point remains the same. The type of degree matters just as the type of trade matters.

The bottom 25 percent of college degree holders basically earn no more than the median worker who ended his or her education after high school. And you still have to pay back student loan debt - be it 30k or 100k.

If you have a degree and got a job based on that degree, then it's probably worth it to you. But if you have a degree and a job that requires no degree then how is that degree worth it?