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re: How insane were Douglas McArthur and Curtis LeMay?
Posted on 10/12/18 at 7:51 am to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 10/12/18 at 7:51 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
You think the death of, conservatively, 80 million Americans is awesome?
You said this would happen when trump got elected
1
Posted on 10/12/18 at 7:53 am to el Gaucho
quote:
McArthur was right
He also said that we fought the wrong guys in Europe in ww2
I don't agree. I think the Nazis and Hitler definitely needed to be stopped, but we shouldn't have stopped with them. We should have put Russia in their place as well. I just don't know how successful that would have been without using Nukes. which we didn't have anymore built at that point. If we would have went conventional It would have been rough. The world was pretty war weary at that point.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 7:54 am to el Gaucho
quote:
You said this would happen when trump got elected
You got a link on that buddy?
Posted on 10/12/18 at 7:57 am to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
I just don't know how successful that would have been without using Nukes
Pretty successful. The Soviets were burning through people like they were dry kindling. Those not fighting were slaves in factories and they were dying off as well.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:02 am to Draconian Sanctions
All those generals are insane, it's what makes them great.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:13 am to Draconian Sanctions
I don’t want to get my computer sticky looking through all the melt
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:15 am to el Gaucho
quote:
He also said that we fought the wrong guys in Europe in ww2
When we defeated Nazi Germany, we should have mobilized the apolitical Wehrmacht soldiers (almost all their lower guys, just not their leadership) to help us crush the Soviets right after. Patton had a plan and we should have done it. We could have made it look like they started it too.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:16 am to Ponchy Tiger
We could have done it though. It would have taken some time (a few years) just because of the size of russia and the winters, but we could have done it.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:18 am to Draconian Sanctions
You're talking about people who were tasked with waging a world war against one of the most brutal enemies imaginable and in mankind's most savage style of warfare to date. They were leaders in the transition stage from conventional warfare to nuclear warfare when there was great uncertainty about how future warfighting would be conducted. The Chinese had no nuclear weapons at the time, so using nukes to prevent their successful intervention in the Korean War would have resulted in absolute U.S. victory in Korea and perhaps would have undermined and destroyed the Communist regime in China. Tactical nuclear weapons were seen as legitimate battlefield weaponry in many military theory circles at the time and were viewed as legitimate weapons to wield against strategic military targets.
It's easy to look back on that time with the current thinking regarding nuclear warfare. The Korean War began in 1950. That's just 5 years removed from WWII.
It's easy to look back on that time with the current thinking regarding nuclear warfare. The Korean War began in 1950. That's just 5 years removed from WWII.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:26 am to Parmen
quote:
When we defeated Nazi Germany, we should have mobilized the apolitical Wehrmacht soldiers (almost all their lower guys, just not their leadership) to help us crush the Soviets right after. Patton had a plan and we should have done it. We could have made it look like they started it too.
I don't think you fully understand how massive and devastating that war would have been. We would have had to push a Soviet Army at it's peak strength with great mastery of mobile warfare now from Central Europe all the way back to the Urals. Patton was 100% right in recognizing the threat of the USSR but waiting until they had pushed all the way into Germany and then trying to push them out of Europe with our own forces would have been monumentally stupid.
The truth is that we should have played realpolitik and struck a deal with the Germans to end the fighting in the West and then hung the Soviets out to dry. You either do that or you deal with the consequences of dealing with the Soviets to defeat Germany through political and diplomatic means, as we did.
It would have been absolutely inexcusable and borderline criminal to build up the Soviet Union, destroy their principle enemy, allow the Soviets to move all the way into Central Europe, and then ask our troops to enter into a new war against a monster of our creation. A new war that, oh btw, would likely cost us more lives than the previous one we just put them through.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:28 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Killing Japanese didn't bother me very much at that time... I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal.
Gen Curtis LeMay
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:31 am to ChewyDante
quote:
The truth is that we should have played realpolitik and struck a deal with the Germans to end the fighting in the West and then hung the Soviets out to dry.
Wow
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:39 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Wow
It's the exact thing we did with the Soviets. Yet I'm sure that bothers you not at all...
If the alternative is launching a war against the Soviets in 1945 ourselves you'd have to be completely foreign policy illiterate to not recognize how stupid it would be to not get everything you want in the West and then let the Germans and Soviets bleed each other out in the East.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:52 am to ChewyDante
quote:
It's the exact thing we did with the Soviets. Yet I'm sure that bothers you not at all...
Given the situation, no. The Nazis were invading our friends and main economic partners. The Soviets weren’t. Also in retrospect even as terrible as Stalin was, the Nazis were worse.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:54 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
They also believed in total war. Which is why they wouldve never lost. Great men in my eyes
Only a fool would believe that nuclear war can not come to America.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:56 am to Draconian Sanctions
The object of war is to reduce your enemies will and ability to wage war. simply put.. win... brutal, nasty and dirty business humankind at it's worst.
I have never nor will I ever have an issue with winning a war with as few casualties as possible.....on our side.
I have never nor will I ever have an issue with winning a war with as few casualties as possible.....on our side.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:58 am to Draconian Sanctions
MacArthur would have been Supreme Allied Commander in WWII had he not retired to the Philippines for a few years before the War. Eisenhower actually served under MacArthur earlier in his career.
MacArthur was a true American bad arse who didn't take shite from anyone. The guy was an absolute juggernaut in Asia. We were lucky to have him.
MacArthur was a true American bad arse who didn't take shite from anyone. The guy was an absolute juggernaut in Asia. We were lucky to have him.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 8:58 am to choupiquesushi
quote:
with as few casualties as possible.....on our side.
What’s worse, five figure American military causalties now or nine figure American civilian casualties later
Posted on 10/12/18 at 9:01 am to Draconian Sanctions
There is some mighty potent stupid on this board.
Posted on 10/12/18 at 9:01 am to Draconian Sanctions
Our friends and economic partners started it
The British attacked after Germany annexed Poland
The British attacked after Germany annexed Poland
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