re: Hopefully EV owners in Florida are filling up cans with electricity for the coming days

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Korkstand

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I can admit there are disadvantages to ICE vehicles and that in some ways EV are better.

Can you ever admit the opposite? Can you ever point out disadvantages for EV’s?

One reason I push back against EV’s is that true believers don’t appear to be able to ever present a balanced picture with positives and negatives.

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I read them pretty frequently...I don't feel coerced into getting an EV And if EVs do take off how does that threaten you in any way?

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The sites only present a rosy view and really never give a full picture IMO. They never talk about unintended consequences of the tech, energy density, or a host of limiting factors. The authors are either paid shills or they are trying to stay in good graces with manufacturers for access. Either way it makes me feel like they are trying to play me.

As far as being threatened? I really don’t like mandates and I don’t like my tax dollars being give to EV causes. I also don’t like EV’s impact on the environment.

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Can you ever point out disadvantages for EV’s?

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Towing range is the biggest reason I probably won't ever own one.

Still, that doesn't make the premise of the thread less silly.

Weagle is one of those that has tried to be so anti-snowflake that he is now a snowflake

Regarding EV, is the main battery running out after 10 years truly a concern? Never know what to believe anymore but heard they are extremely expensive. I don’t have any opinion on EV vs gas, doesn’t mean much to me but not versed in EVs

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Have you ever driven or even rode in an EV?

I can tell you my opinion of them changed after riding in one

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I've driven one a bunch. I had for a week in Denver for work. They're fine. Tesla makes a nice car. I don't want an electric car. It doesn't fit my needs. After Ida last year I was running from the Nola area to Mississippi daily hauling shite back and forth. I could make a few runs, fill up on the way back to my house and do it all over again. It would've a giant pain in the arse to have to sit around and wait for a vehicle capable of doing that to charge. No EV on the market would be good for that. Nor can any of them tow my boat and trash trailer.

You like your EV, fine, but leave it at that. It is in no way a better option for everyone.

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I can admit there are disadvantages to ICE vehicles and that in some ways EV are better.

Can you ever admit the opposite? Can you ever point out disadvantages for EV’s?

One reason I push back against EV’s is that true believers don’t appear to be able to ever present a balanced picture with positives and negatives.

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I acknowledge the disadvantages all the time. Everybody knows that range and charge times are disadvantages. But here on TD, which is the only place I talk about this stuff, the EV threads are very nearly 100% started as anti-EV propaganda. So if "a balanced picture" is what you want, that's what I'm here for - to balance these threads.

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Regarding EV, is the main battery running out after 10 years truly a concern?

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It's less about the age and more about the miles and battery charge cycles associated with that.

Real-world data (for Teslas at least) shows that the batteries tend to retain 90% of their capacity after ~200k miles. If that amount of reduced range isn't a problem for your usage, you can just keep driving it probably out to half a million miles or more.

Also I would expect these "spent" EV batteries to still hold a lot of value to be repurposed into a second life as home energy storage. They can also have value to recycling plants, which I would expect to start popping up soon. The cost of a replacement battery can be offset somewhat is what I'm suggesting.



Edit: So this brings up an interesting topic (to me at least). Once this first wave of EV batteries starts getting swapped out in quantity, we're going to have a shitload of battery packs that still have ~70% of their original capacity. Maybe that's not good enough in a car, but it's still a nice chunk of energy. If you can pick up an old pack for a couple thousand dollars and have it wired up on your house, even if you don't have solar panels that's a good way to insulate your entire home from power surges/failures/brownouts or to serve as backup power in place of or in combination with a generator.

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So if "a balanced picture" is what you want, that's what I'm here for - to balance these threads.

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That’s fair

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There's going to be good money in these as VPPs.

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Definitely.

Folks act like old packs will just go to the dump, but many of them can be repurposed as-is or after a refurb, or a pile of them makes an extremely resource-rich "mine" that happens to have all the shite you need to make new batteries.

A lot of cool shite happens when energy storage is widely dispersed. We can pretty much flatten the demand from power plants, making them cheaper to operate. We can smooth out production from intermittent sources like solar and wind, making them more viable and extracting more value from them. We can have a grid made up of micro-grids, making it very resilient and almost impervious to widespread and prolonged outages due to disasters, attacks, or whatever. Exciting stuff.