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Started By
Message
re: Hawaii Missile attack? Edit: FALSE ALARM
Posted on 1/13/18 at 1:49 pm to lsujunky
Posted on 1/13/18 at 1:49 pm to lsujunky
This kind of terror in Hawaii will be a stark reminder of the threat NK poses. If anything, it will bolster domestic support for a harder line when dealing with a rouge regime.
1
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:03 pm to Volvagia
quote:
suggested is definitely a weapon of mass destruction
No it is not. Here is the definition of a WMD from the FBI
quote:
Definition of WMD Title 18 U.S.C. §2332a defines weapons of mass destruction (WMD) as: Any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, including the following: a bomb; grenade; rocket having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than four ounces; missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce; mine; or device similar to any of the previously described devices;
Any weapons that is designed or intend to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;
Any weapon involving a disease organism; and
Any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life.
As you can see, a kinetic energy weapon does not meet thus criteria.
quote:
I don’t think the treaty expressly defines WMD as solely NBC.
Doesn't need to. WMDs are specified as above.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:10 pm to colorchangintiger
Rabble rabble, something something 2nd and 26 ...Tua launches a bomb. ( I kill me)
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:13 pm to colorchangintiger
Damn...this really hits close to home. I was in Hawaii just 6 years ago.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:17 pm to Tyga Woods
Holy crap I’m glad you’re ok that was close Tyga
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:20 pm to Tyga Woods
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:27 pm to beerJeep
1) International treaty isn’t defined within the US Code.
2) Did you not actually read what you quoted, or did you skim it?
Pretty sure that a kinetic strike is a device similar in effect and function to a rocket containing explosives of more than 4 oz.
BTW, thank for doing the digging and confirming my original statement that WMD is not limited to NBC like the other poster seemed to insinuate.
And for the record, I’m not saying it IS a WMD. I’m saying it’s legally muddy. The only thing that’s certain is that you can’t be certain it ISNT classified as one. For fricks sake people, you are arguing that a weapon with similar effect to a nuke isn’t a weapon of mass destruction.
2) Did you not actually read what you quoted, or did you skim it?
quote:
Definition of WMD Title 18 U.S.C. §2332a defines weapons of mass destruction (WMD) as: Any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, including the following: a bomb; grenade; rocket having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than four ounces; missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce; mine; or device similar to any of the previously described devices;
Pretty sure that a kinetic strike is a device similar in effect and function to a rocket containing explosives of more than 4 oz.
BTW, thank for doing the digging and confirming my original statement that WMD is not limited to NBC like the other poster seemed to insinuate.
And for the record, I’m not saying it IS a WMD. I’m saying it’s legally muddy. The only thing that’s certain is that you can’t be certain it ISNT classified as one. For fricks sake people, you are arguing that a weapon with similar effect to a nuke isn’t a weapon of mass destruction.
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:35 pm to Tyga Woods
I’m in Hawaii now. How do you think I felt?
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:37 pm to Volvagia
quote:
International treaty isn’t defined within the US Code.
OK. Then find a major world power that implicitly states that kinetic weapons are WMDs
quote:
Pretty sure that a kinetic strike is a device similar in effect and function to a rocket containing explosives of more than 4 oz.
No.... One goes boom. Is filled with explosives. The other is solid metal. Inert. Doesn't go boom.
quote:
I’m saying it’s legally muddy.
Not really. Find me a world leading nation that classifies kinetic weapons as a WMD
quote:
For fricks sake people, you are arguing that a weapon with similar effect to a nuke isn’t a weapon of mass destruction
That's because it isn't. See above for what classifies as a WMD.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:40 pm to beerJeep
quote:
Not really. Find me a world leading nation that classifies kinetic weapons as a WMD
You seriously asking me to find a public, formal statement by a nation state on a weapons system that doesn’t exist and isn’t in a known form of development?
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:44 pm to lsujunky
quote:
He said it scared the shite out of him.
Probably literally. No telling how many people soiled their pants today.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:44 pm to beerJeep
quote:
No.... One goes boom. Is filled with explosives. The other is solid metal. Inert. Doesn't go boom.
Then please explain the significance of the qualifier line of “any device similar to above” and why it literally can’t mean a kinetic strike.
By your interpretation, if I stick an ounce of antimatter in a ballistic missile, it’s not an WMD because technically antimatter isn’t an “explosive” and even if you classified it as such, it’s below the defined limits of the definition.
Except for the qualifier line you like ignoring, which allows for common sense adjustments and the murkiness what makes the matter not settled.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:46 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
I’m in Hawaii now. How do you think I felt?
quote:
Alabama Fan
Probably that you're undefeated against ballistic missiles and you're going to count that as a national championship.
PRINT THE T-SHIRTS!
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:49 pm to Volvagia
quote:
and why it literally can’t mean a kinetic strike.
Because a kinetic weapon is nothing like an explosive. Or a nuclear weapon. Or a poisonous weapon.
Not hard to grasp. A kinetic weapon doesn't explode. So it's not conventional. So it isn't like rockets.
A kinetic weapon doesn't release radioactive material. So it isn't like a nuclear weapon.
A kinetic weapon doesn't release poison or a virus. So it isn't like a poison weapon.
quote:
your interpretation, if I stick an ounce of antimatter in a ballistic missile, it’s not an WMD because technically antimatter isn’t an “explosive” and even if you classified it as such, it’s below the defined limits of the definition
It would classify at the least as a ballistic missile. As its strapped to.... A ballistic missile...
Your comparison, while cute in your head, is quite stupid.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:55 pm to beerJeep
quote:
Your comparison, while cute in your head, is quite stupid.
I’m not the one saying I can destroy an entire city with one weapon but it’s clearly not a weapon of mass destruction as long as it doesn’t use explosives.
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:57 pm to Volvagia
quote:
You seriously asking me to find a public, formal statement by a nation state on a weapons system that doesn’t exist and isn’t in a known form of development
Kind of like the formal statement by nation states on weapons systems that don't exist and weren't any in known development (aka moon weapon bases etc) that the whole treaty was built upon?
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:58 pm to Volvagia
quote:
I’m not the one saying I can destroy an entire city with one weapon but it’s clearly not a weapon of mass destruction as long as it doesn’t use explosives.
Me neither. The FBI is though. Otherwise kinetic weapons would be explicitly stated in the WMD list.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 3:01 pm to beerJeep
Or they could put in a statement of “any device similar to the above.”
You still haven’t answered what does that line mean in your viewpoint.
It’s either a rocket for 4 oz of explosive material or it isn’t.
It’s either a missile or it isn’t.
It’s either a mine or it isn’t.
It is clear and defined.
Why add a line saying “and any device similar to the above” if it wasn’t to account for weapons systems that didn’t exist at the time of writing.
I read it as any system having similar effects as the above.
You obviously don’t.
But unless you can PROVE my reading is wrong, that is my entire fricking point.
The situation is muddy. Especially regarding international law. I don’t see why you think that’s not the case.
It’s like you live in a black and white world where there’s no such thing as lawyers and judges who interpret the law
You still haven’t answered what does that line mean in your viewpoint.
It’s either a rocket for 4 oz of explosive material or it isn’t.
It’s either a missile or it isn’t.
It’s either a mine or it isn’t.
It is clear and defined.
Why add a line saying “and any device similar to the above” if it wasn’t to account for weapons systems that didn’t exist at the time of writing.
I read it as any system having similar effects as the above.
You obviously don’t.
But unless you can PROVE my reading is wrong, that is my entire fricking point.
The situation is muddy. Especially regarding international law. I don’t see why you think that’s not the case.
It’s like you live in a black and white world where there’s no such thing as lawyers and judges who interpret the law
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 1/13/18 at 3:04 pm to beerJeep
quote:
Kind of like the formal statement by nation states on weapons systems that don't exist and weren't any in known development (aka moon weapon bases etc) that the whole treaty was built upon?
Now let me throw it back to you:
I bet you thought that sounded cute in your head.
Saying that we choose to not pursue an action is a little different than offering a public opinion on something that hasn’t happened.
It’s would be like a country bitching about a super secret US military base at the center of the earth and what badness we could do there.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 3:05 pm to Volvagia
quote:
any device similar to the above.”
Which a kinetic weapon isn't.... See above.
quote:What? Are you still on your antimatter bullshite?
It’s either a rocket for 4 oz of explosive material or it isn’t.
quote:
It’s either a missile or it isn’t. It’s either a mine or it isn’t. It is clear and defined.
Well...... A kinetic weapon isn't a nuclear weapon. Or a conventional weapon. Or a poisonous weapon.
How dense are you?
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