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re: Ford, GM, Mercedes come clean on EV demand weakness
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:01 am to TigersnJeeps
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:01 am to TigersnJeeps
quote:I wonder how much drain on the battery that huge vid screen has? Maybe that's part reason why the range of the vehicle sucks arse. (maybe not, but just curious)
Not a fan of them...
0
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:02 am to dewster
quote:
It's being replaced by solar, which takes up about 1500 acres of land to produce the same amount of electricity
it's 10 to 11 acres a Megawatt for solar, it's going to take a bit more than 1500 acres to replace 600 to 800 megawatts that coal unit puts out. On a perfectly sunny day
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:12 am to lurkr
When EV batteries burn, it's different. How many rural fire departments are educated and equipped to handle that sort of fire? Can smaller city non-volunteer fire departments hand such fires?
A lot of homes have garages under the roof of the house. If EVs are stored there, have insurance companies added charges for potential catastrophic loss?
A lot of homes have garages under the roof of the house. If EVs are stored there, have insurance companies added charges for potential catastrophic loss?
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:12 am to GusMcRae
quote:
Is there an EV that I can use to pull a 23’ center console, drive to Colorado or west Texas without stopping while hauling a bunch of crap? Can I drive it around the deer lease without getting stuck? Will said remote locales have charging stations (no)?
Of course the answer is no(right now and probably for the foreseeable future). And yeah you should never get an EV at this time.
But of course you know that your use of your vehicle/truck is not what the general population uses their vehicle for. And as typical in these threads, someone wants to use type of an example of why it's dumb for anyone to own an EV.
My post was more from a general investment standpoint. I could give two shits what everybody drives for their vehicle on a day to day basis.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:12 am to fallguy_1978
quote:
Same. Gas isn't really a big expense for us either. I really have zero motivation or desire to buy an EV.
It would take one helluva long commute to justify buying a EV based on fuel savings alone. With some hefty government subsidization that commmute would be so long you would not have time to work an eight hour shift and get back then next day to do it again. It is an idiotic undertaking and one that is being accepted by people who do not understand physics and facilitated by hucksters and snake oil salesmen. EVs have a place...delivery trucks and public transportation are great examples. They are not practical for most families. And will not be anytime in the near future no matter how many families buy one. The economic intelligence of the average middle class American is not exactly impressive...take a look at the trucks they drive as commuters and the houses they buy...their buying a Tesla is just a natural progression is their idiocy.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:13 am to member12
EVs only make sense for a certain type of buyer right now. This buyer is in the gross minority of vehicle consumers.
They are largely cost prohibitive for most, so the govt and the industry need to stop jamming them down our throats.
Oh, and end the damn subsidies. The people who are buying EVs don’t need a subsidy for their shiny new toys.
They are largely cost prohibitive for most, so the govt and the industry need to stop jamming them down our throats.
Oh, and end the damn subsidies. The people who are buying EVs don’t need a subsidy for their shiny new toys.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:17 am to dewster
quote:
Where is the Cybertruck BTW?
Dunno. Personally I think the cybertruck will flop outside of the people who want it for the statement. Who knows.
I think teslas bigger play could be their role in charging infrastructure, selling their equipment under branded names(like they are doing with BP), inking deals with other manufactures for use of their charging network.
So less in the future as a automaker
Who knows they may even be willing to be a provider of the their tech to other automakers in the future.
This post was edited on 11/1/23 at 11:19 am
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:22 am to Puffoluffagus
quote:
Of course the answer is no(right now and probably for the foreseeable future). And yeah you should never get an EV at this time.
But of course you know that your use of your vehicle/truck is not what the general population uses their vehicle for. And as typical in these threads, someone wants to use type of an example of why it's dumb for anyone to own an EV.
My post was more from a general investment standpoint. I could give two shits what everybody drives for their vehicle on a day to day basis.
Every study conducted indicates that cost of ownership for a Tesla 3 compared to the same year model Camry has been, until this year, substantially higher. Some studies now show the Tesla is less expensive to own than the Camry over 5 years but projections beyond 5 years revert back to the Camry being less costly to own. Both have comparable resell values.
Compared to almost every other EV than the Tesla 3 the cost ownership of a comparable ICE vehicle is SUBSTANTIALLY higher....in some cases double the cost. It is just as bad for hyrbids as it is for EVS...remove the tax credit and all of them cost more to own, including the Tesla.
Finally, Tesla has a remarkable resell value. It can not be based on longevity. It is based on a cult like following. That may be sustainable but it is unlikely.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:29 am to lurkr
quote:
it's 10 to 11 acres a Megawatt for solar
it's 4-5/MW
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:30 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:None of this requires 4 cars, this doesn't make sense.
I am talking about needing a vehicle to carry a load a couple of hundred miles a month and commute 50 miles a day and go on a road trip a couple of times year with the family. That takes 3 but if both spouses work they will need a 4th commuter.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:32 am to member12
Ford and GM about to find themselves out of the fraternity.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:32 am to ibldprplgld
quote:
Oh, and end the damn subsidies. The people who are buying EVs don’t need a subsidy for their shiny new toys.
Yep, this bugs me more than anything about EV's. Originally it was to get people to buy into the gimmick, now everyone is making them, and there should be 0 incentives to buy one for anyone. They also need a mileage/road tax of some kind to equal or be a bit more than gas engines because of the added weight on the roads.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:33 am to real turf fan
quote:
A lot of homes have garages under the roof of the house. If EVs are stored there, have insurance companies added charges for potential catastrophic loss?
Insueance for EVS is substantially higher than it is for ICE Vs because they are damned expensive and there are far fewer of them thus spare parts, especially non consumable parts, are rarer. I suspect if there is even the hint that having an EV around the house is an increase in risk howmeowners will go up.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:37 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:
Yep, this bugs me more than anything about EV's. Originally it was to get people to buy into the gimmick, now everyone is making them, and there should be 0 incentives to buy one for anyone.
ICE market has been incentivized too much to not level the playing field. Personally, i prefer to consumer tax rebate method to pouring money into the manufacturers that never make it to the consumer.
quote:Many states are doing it but, as usual, it's been politicized and they're punishing EVs by overcharging. Typical lazy politics though.
They also need a mileage/road tax of some kind to equal or be a bit more than gas engines because of the added weight on the roads.
Also for cars, the weight difference class v class is marginal. Trucks are a bit more.
This post was edited on 11/1/23 at 11:38 am
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:38 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Insueance for EVS is substantially higher than it is for ICE Vs because they are damned expensive and there are far fewer of them thus spare parts, especially non consumable parts, are rarer. I suspect if there is even the hint that having an EV around the house is an increase in risk howmeowners will go up.
Mine went down when my wife went from a 17 IS350 to a 22 Model 3.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:38 am to Corinthians420
quote:
the EV crisis
Is this something you just made up?
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:41 am to ibldprplgld
quote:
EVs only make sense for a certain type of buyer right now
said it before and I'll say it again. EV's fit the driver who only makes short commutes to and from work, around town, and to the local stores.
It is not a catch all replacement for any gas.
Its similar to a Jeep in that is should be used for its intended use, and not be made to fit as a "family sedan" or even worse a "truck". It is a good option as a 3rd vehicle for those that want to buy them.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:42 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:
Yep, this bugs me more than anything about EV's. Originally it was to get people to buy into the gimmick, now everyone is making them, and there should be 0 incentives to buy one for anyone. They also need a mileage/road tax of some kind to equal or be a bit more than gas engines because of the added weight on the roads.
I know of a place which has a substantial vehicle fleet which was, until last year, comprised of all ICE Vehicles. In the last year they have leased 50 Ford Lightnings and 50 Teslas. They have been in service now for almost a year. They are almost as useful as teats on a boar hog for the application they were intended for which is basically a short commuter distance spread out over 8 hours. Both the Ford's and the Tesla's have far longer charging times than the manufactures suggest (the same as a manufacturer lying about fuel efficiency) and the ranges have yet to meet manufacturer recomendations. Ford and Tesla are both present and have all kinds of ideas of why these 2 thing is true and every one of those ideas will cost a fortune to correct or the vehicles will simply never perform as advertised.
This facility is a one off facility with uncommon hazards well known to be present. These vehicles MUST stay 500 yards away from those hazards at all times which means that their uses is very limited. Talk about a subsidy to the manufacturer...100 vehicles leased and for all practical purposes unusable because of over stated efficiencies and unkown risks....thats what you gotta love about EVs, like all forms of snake oil before them they require idiots and devotees void of common sense and logic to last more than a minute...
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:48 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:What do you think "most" or thee average family is doing with their cars? The average family isn't hauling shite and has 2 vehicles. Trying to figure out what you think the average family does that makes them not practical.
They are not practical for most families.
quote:I have a Tesla. Go ahead and list all the reasons it was idiotic to purchase, so I can laugh and shoot them all down.
their buying a Tesla is just a natural progression is their idiocy.
Seriously, go ahead, show me the list.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:49 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Talk about a subsidy to the manufacturer...100 vehicles leased
Tesla doesn't get the subsidy for leased vehicles. The leasing company does.
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