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re: For those with CCW Permits/License, watch this video regarding mass shootings....

Posted on 8/5/19 at 12:33 pm to
Posted by jbgleason
Bailed out of BTR to God's Country
Member since Mar 2012
20386 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 12:33 pm to
quote:

While obviously a stupid way to prepare for such things, in the miraculous event that he somehow snipes a mass shooter inside a building from a parking lot from 500 yards, I don't think a prosecutor will go after him for trying to neutralize someone killing people indiscriminately.


Ludicrous scenario aside. (And I feel obligated to point out that shooting a head sized paper target at 500 yards and shooting a moving PERSON in the head at 500 yards are vastly different...)

Just as self-defense is acceptable in response to a threat of death or great bodily harm against yourself. It also applies in the defense of a third party. So if some whacko is killing or about to kill others, it is perfectly legal to shoot him even though he isn't a direct threat to you personally.
Posted by celltech1981
Member since Jul 2014
8139 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 12:41 pm to
quote:

I can head shoot at 500 yards consistently.


at a target, off of a bench. I doubt you'd be consistent when it counts. Anybody who hunts knows that shooting at a range and shooting at an animal are completely different ball games, especially when your adrenaline is pumping.

quote:

I stay close to a S&W .357 6” barrel revolver. It covers distance pretty well.


dat big iron
Posted by uway
Member since Sep 2004
33109 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 12:49 pm to
quote:

Run, hide, fight. In that order. If you can't run, hide. If you can't hide, then fight.


frick that cowardly mantra.

I’m not trying to sound like a badass, because I am definitely not a badass, but if you hear/see a bunch of innocent people being shot and you choose to run and hide instead of intervening, ESPECIALLY when you’re armed and have good reason to believe that your intervention will be effective, that is the definition of cowardice.

That’s what the cop did in Parkland, right? And everyone called him a coward. Are you really, as a man, going to outsource bravery to law enforcement?

You can choose to run away, but don’t pretend to yourself that it wouldn’t be cowardly.

And yes, I know it depends on the situation, and there are some situations where it could be counter-productive to intervene.
But put on your big boy pants and asses the situation. If you are running away to save your own skin, it’s not worth saving.
This post was edited on 8/5/19 at 12:56 pm
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
24454 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 12:51 pm to
There's a huge difference between actively seeking out the gunman with your CC and holding your ground. I'm not running at the guy from the other end of the store hoping to take him on with my 7 shots of 9mm.

But, if you hide out somewhere to protect yourself and give you a HUGE advantage if they walk by? I'll absolutely take my chances. There's plenty of places to hide in a Walmart where if you are ready and waiting on someone to walk by with an AR15 you'd still have the advantage. Customer service desk, dressing room, Cell phone counter, etc.

You basically create a very small and limited kill zone with you in the huge advantage while waiting on the authorities. While doing this, you can also help to protect others.

ETA: This isn't being John Wick, this is just using common sense and what you have available to you. If I'm at a part of the store not close to an exit, I'm likely not running across the store. I'm hiding at an advantage.
This post was edited on 8/5/19 at 12:52 pm
Posted by finchmeister08
Member since Mar 2011
40517 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 1:11 pm to
quote:

That’s what the cop did in Parkland, right?

Yup

quote:

And everyone called him a coward. Are you really, as a man, going to outsource bravery to law enforcement?

he's a cop. that's what he signed up for. to PROTECT and SERVE. that's what part of my taxes go towards. you want me to pay his salary and do his job? the ridicule he got was warranted. plus, it was a gun free zone so he would've been the only one nearby with a weapon to do anything about it.

i don't carry a gun to protect people that are getting lit up in sporting goods while i'm shopping for produce. i carry to protect me and mine. if there are people around me that benefit from me carrying, that's fine.

everyone has the same opportunities i do, so they can carry a weapon just as well as i can. and i wish people would.
Posted by Walking the Earth
Member since Feb 2013
17464 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 1:22 pm to
quote:

I'm definitely not a badass, but if you hear/see a bunch of innocent people being shot and you choose to run and hide instead of intervening, ESPECIALLY when you’re armed and have good reason to believe that your intervention will be effective, that is the definition of cowardice. 



If you're implying that you would run towards an active shooter even while unarmed, then you are most definitely a badass.

A not very bright badass but a badass nonetheless.

quote:

But put on your big boy pants and asses the situation. 


There is no "assessing the situation". These things are over in seconds.

You don't have time to diagram a play. Oh, and you don't get to call timeout, either.

Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
24454 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 1:24 pm to
That vegas Walmart shooting is not even a mass shooting. They shot 2 cops in a Cici's Pizza then the guy that confronted them died then the two of them died. They never even killed anyone inside of the actual Walmart.

Plus there were two of them.

Compared to the more recent and common mass attacks, it was very different. If someone like Jared Wilcox had confronted one of the 2 shooters this past Sunday he likely saves a ton of lives.
Posted by uway
Member since Sep 2004
33109 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 1:42 pm to
quote:

he's a cop. that's what he signed up for. to PROTECT and SERVE. that's what part of my taxes go towards. you want me to pay his salary and do his job? the ridicule he got was warranted. plus, it was a gun free zone so he would've been the only one nearby with a weapon to do anything about it.

i don't carry a gun to protect people that are getting lit up in sporting goods while i'm shopping for produce. i carry to protect me and mine. if there are people around me that benefit from me carrying, that's fine.

everyone has the same opportunities i do, so they can carry a weapon just as well as i can. and i wish people would.



That’s all self-serving and cowardly. Call it whatever you want. And I understand that most people would agree with you, and I don’t blame people for thinking that way. I just think it’s a bad paradigm.
And the mention of the cops salary is bizarre to me. We are talking about life and death and you’re worried about where the paycheck is coming from.

Society in general would have agreed with me in prior generations. The change to widespread self-centeredness is causing all kinds of evils in society, including these mass shootings. In my opinion.
Posted by N2cars
Member since Feb 2008
40311 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 5:57 pm to
quote:

And yes, I know it depends on the situation, and there are some situations where it could be counter-productive to intervene. 
But put on your big boy pants and asses the situation. If you are running away to save your own skin, it’s not worth saving.


That's exactly what a barefoot, 55 year-old plumber did in Sutherland Springs.

He assessed and took action.

He did a helluva job, too.

I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned.

This post was edited on 8/5/19 at 5:59 pm
Posted by N2cars
Member since Feb 2008
40311 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 6:09 pm to
quote:

There is no "assessing the situation". These things are over in seconds. 


This is just false.

Not in Vegas.
Not in Broward County.
Not in Sutherland Springs.



Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 6:20 pm to
Whether you run hide or fight or some type of combination....the fact is that it is the decision for you to make...and a decision you have no idea how you will make until it happens.
Posted by N2cars
Member since Feb 2008
40311 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 6:27 pm to
I can't speak for others, only myself.
Posted by GREENHEAD22
Member since Nov 2009
21028 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 6:37 pm to
I would be willing to bet that most CCW carriers, at least the ones from TD/OB, are more trained and practice more than a lot of these nut cases doing the shootings.
Posted by USMEagles
Member since Jan 2018
11811 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 6:44 pm to
Something that's overlooked here: how skilled is the other guy?

Most of these guys seem to buy a gun, test it at an indoor range a few times, and then go haywire. I can't think of one that survived long after he encountered someone willing and able to fight back.
Posted by N2cars
Member since Feb 2008
40311 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 6:48 pm to
As I said before, a pistol against a long gun is poor odds.

But to your point, in a lot of cases, if anyone fires anything back it flummoxes these chickenshits.

Especially if you can think a bit and hear a break in the firing, maybe they're trying to get another mag in.
Posted by Nado Jenkins83
Land of the Free
Member since Nov 2012
66487 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 6:52 pm to
I have a Henry ar7 in my truck. .22LR. I think I could head shot someone at 100 yards from good cover.
Posted by N2cars
Member since Feb 2008
40311 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 6:53 pm to
Iffen you'd kept that Raptor, you could just run them over.
Posted by Nado Jenkins83
Land of the Free
Member since Nov 2012
66487 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 6:55 pm to
shite my taco can take out a few. I need a new truck anyway
Posted by AUTimbo
Member since Sep 2011
3373 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 8:19 pm to
quote:

I can head shoot at 500 yards consistently.



horseshite

30-06 with a 200 yd zero has a minimum of 40" drop at 500 yds. A stressful situation, ANY wind and a rifle sighted for 500 yds I would give a good shooter a 2-5 chance at a head shot...maybe.

So unless you are a world class long distance shooter or a military trained sniper (or member of the ALL-Army/All-Marine Corps shooting team, like my Dad was) you are severely overestimating your prowness with a rifle sir.
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
24454 posts
Posted on 8/5/19 at 8:28 pm to
quote:

So unless you are a world class long distance shooter or a military trained sniper (or member of the ALL-Army/All-Marine Corps shooting team, like my Dad was) you are severely overestimating your prowness with a rifle sir.



Calm down man. Why the hell would someone be shooting 500 yards in a Walmart anyway? You are waaaayyy over thinking this. The chances of someone running out to their truck and grabbing a gun then having a shot at a perp in the parking lot before the police are there is a pretty laughable equation. It happened in that Texas Church shooting but it was a small Church in a small town.
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