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Message
re: Florida is putting an end to all school vaccine mandates
Posted on 9/3/25 at 8:35 pm to idsrdum
Posted on 9/3/25 at 8:35 pm to idsrdum
I fed your response from ChatGPT back to it as though I wrote it and got this:
You’ve written a set of immunology claims that blend some true points with some oversimplifications and things that aren’t fully supported by evidence. Let’s go through them carefully.
Innate Immune Activation
• True in part:
Natural infection does indeed expose the immune system to a wide array of PAMPs (pathogen-associated molecular patterns), which activate PRRs (pattern recognition receptors) broadly and repeatedly.
• But: Non-live vaccines do lack most natural PAMPs, so adjuvants are added to mimic that stimulation. Adjuvants can provide strong innate signals, sometimes even broader or more sustained than natural infection, depending on formulation.
• Bottom line: Statement is partly true, but it oversimplifies—some vaccines (e.g., adjuvanted subunit vaccines, mRNA vaccines) generate very robust innate activation.
T Helper (Th) Response Profile
• Partially true:
Many natural infections stimulate mixed Th1, Th2, and Th17 responses.
Some non-live vaccines, especially older protein-based ones without strong adjuvants, do skew toward Th2 (antibody-focused) responses.
• But: This is not universal. Newer adjuvants and platforms (e.g., mRNA, viral vectors) induce strong Th1 and cytotoxic T-cell responses, which are exactly what’s needed for intracellular pathogens like viruses.
• Bottom line: Older “plain” non-live vaccines leaned Th2; modern vaccines can induce balanced or Th1-dominant immunity.
Potential Impact on Overall Health
• Speculative / debated:
It’s true that “trained immunity” (lasting innate reprogramming) is stronger after natural infection or live vaccines (like BCG). But the idea that non-live vaccines weaken immunity overall or make you more prone to allergies/autoimmunity is not established.
• In fact, large-scale studies generally show that vaccines reduce overall mortality and do not increase autoimmune or allergy risk in the population.
• Bottom line: The “reduced innate training ? worse overall health” idea is a hypothesis with limited support in humans. The benefits of vaccines in preventing severe infection far outweigh any theoretical drawbacks.
Overall Summary
• Some truths: natural infection is broader in innate stimulation, and non-live vaccines sometimes need adjuvants to mimic that.
• Some outdated generalizations: not all non-live vaccines are Th2-skewed.
• Some speculative claims: that they broadly weaken immunity or increase allergy/autoimmunity risk—this isn’t supported by strong evidence.
Vaccines don’t replicate natural infection perfectly, but modern designs are much closer than older ones, and they protect without the high risks of natural infection.
You’ve written a set of immunology claims that blend some true points with some oversimplifications and things that aren’t fully supported by evidence. Let’s go through them carefully.
Innate Immune Activation
• True in part:
Natural infection does indeed expose the immune system to a wide array of PAMPs (pathogen-associated molecular patterns), which activate PRRs (pattern recognition receptors) broadly and repeatedly.
• But: Non-live vaccines do lack most natural PAMPs, so adjuvants are added to mimic that stimulation. Adjuvants can provide strong innate signals, sometimes even broader or more sustained than natural infection, depending on formulation.
• Bottom line: Statement is partly true, but it oversimplifies—some vaccines (e.g., adjuvanted subunit vaccines, mRNA vaccines) generate very robust innate activation.
T Helper (Th) Response Profile
• Partially true:
Many natural infections stimulate mixed Th1, Th2, and Th17 responses.
Some non-live vaccines, especially older protein-based ones without strong adjuvants, do skew toward Th2 (antibody-focused) responses.
• But: This is not universal. Newer adjuvants and platforms (e.g., mRNA, viral vectors) induce strong Th1 and cytotoxic T-cell responses, which are exactly what’s needed for intracellular pathogens like viruses.
• Bottom line: Older “plain” non-live vaccines leaned Th2; modern vaccines can induce balanced or Th1-dominant immunity.
Potential Impact on Overall Health
• Speculative / debated:
It’s true that “trained immunity” (lasting innate reprogramming) is stronger after natural infection or live vaccines (like BCG). But the idea that non-live vaccines weaken immunity overall or make you more prone to allergies/autoimmunity is not established.
• In fact, large-scale studies generally show that vaccines reduce overall mortality and do not increase autoimmune or allergy risk in the population.
• Bottom line: The “reduced innate training ? worse overall health” idea is a hypothesis with limited support in humans. The benefits of vaccines in preventing severe infection far outweigh any theoretical drawbacks.
Overall Summary
• Some truths: natural infection is broader in innate stimulation, and non-live vaccines sometimes need adjuvants to mimic that.
• Some outdated generalizations: not all non-live vaccines are Th2-skewed.
• Some speculative claims: that they broadly weaken immunity or increase allergy/autoimmunity risk—this isn’t supported by strong evidence.
Vaccines don’t replicate natural infection perfectly, but modern designs are much closer than older ones, and they protect without the high risks of natural infection.
This post was edited on 9/3/25 at 8:38 pm
Posted on 9/3/25 at 8:35 pm to Shexter
Hello measles, chicken pox, and polio.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 8:36 pm to Shexter
No one travels to Florida for anything, they can just do their own dumb thing in their bubble and not worry about anyone else being impacted. Now, if they were big on tourism and international travel there might be reason for longterm concern.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 8:44 pm to idsrdum
quote:
Lol. I am not 'on the side of polio' whatever that may mean, I was just pointing out the parallels of Polio and Covid.
You really aren't the one to point out the nuances of any parallels, let's be real.
quote:
Look I know you believe that vaccines are just "mimicking a natural process". But is that is not quite accurate.
It is absolutely accurate.
quote:
The route of delivery is different, the antigen is different with non-live vaccines, and most importantly the presentation to the innate immune system is different.
The presentation to the innate immune system is not different. I have no idea what 'the antigen is different with non-live vaccines' means, as that sentence borders on nonsense.
quote:
What effect does this have on innate/adaptive homeostasis?
It's something the human body can do extremely well. This sounds like something you read somewhere and thought profound.
quote:
And how might this factor in other diseases?
They probably don't, or at least, we don't have significant evidence of this, but again, this is the question one might pose if they believed the vaccines were worse that the diseases which they protect against.
quote:
Do we know, or do we just measure pathogen specific antibodies and call the vaccine a success?
Do you have some other vague standard you can invoke here? Maybe you should try that again. It has been a while since you mentioned antibody-dependent enhancement. Did that every play out? You certainly warned about it enough.
Regardless, there are things we know and things we do not know. We know that the most effective vaccines produce long-lived plasma cells with high affinity antibodies and memory B cells, which require interactions between MHC-II cells presenting antigenic material to CD4 cells.
quote:
Non-live vaccines usually lack these natural PAMPs and rely on adjuvants to stimulate PRRs, resulting in narrower, often less sustained innate activation.
This isn't meaningful.
quote:
Non-live vaccines often skew towards a Th2-biased response (antibody-heavy), which may not fully protect against certain infections needing strong Th1 cellular immunity.
This is the explicit point of a vaccination campaign. Did you read any of the immunology books I told you to read? If you go to page 1184 of Cellular Immunology, it says this explicitly.
quote:
It might influence susceptibility to allergies, autoimmune conditions, or other immune-related diseases due to altered immune regulation.
More vague nonsense.
quote:
Overall, vaccines that don’t fully mimic natural infection may miss opportunities to promote broad, balanced, and long-lasting immune health.
Because vaccines that did happen to try to mimic natural infection were among the most dangerous vaccines, with extremely high injury rates.
Interacting with you is a good argument for gatekeeping knowledge.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 8:48 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Do you have some other vague standard you can invoke here?
You never actually say anything
Posted on 9/3/25 at 8:49 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
You never actually say anything
I've said plenty, but maybe you have trouble understanding me. What question do you have?
Posted on 9/3/25 at 8:49 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Its amazing how stupid people are yet think they are smart All this shows is you have ZERO idea how vaccines function and you should hold zero opinions on them
Maybe you should try being less of a cocksucker when attempting to inform people who might be ignorant about a topic.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 8:49 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Dont give people excuses for being extremely stupid
It's not an excuse, it's tone from the top.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 8:53 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I've said plenty, but maybe you have trouble understanding me. What question do you have?
You have to forgive Mingo, it is really easy to talk over his head.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 8:57 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I've said plenty
You’ve said plenty of words
quote:
What question do you have?
Why does the smartest man in the world spend so much time trying to explain such simple concepts to plebes? Lions don’t concern themselves with sheep, as they say.
My theory: you get no professional validation because you’re a fricking retard do you come here and feign intelligence
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:07 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
You’ve said plenty of words
That no doubt you had some difficulty understanding.
quote:
Why does the smartest man in the world spend so much time trying to explain such simple concepts to plebes?
These concepts aren't simple.
quote:
Lions don’t concern themselves with sheep, as they say.
Ahahahahahaha. Are you quoting some alpha retard or something? Jesus.
quote:
My theory: you get no professional validation because you’re a fricking retard do you come here and feign intelligence
Why would I need professional validation? Do you really need another man telling you 'good job' or something? Don't you hear that enough at home? Is professional validation something you need? To be real, I come here every few weeks to do things I've been doing for twenty years now, which is to argue about stuff on the internet. I know you are a retard, especially about medicine. If you follow me around for a few more years, maybe you will pick something up though.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:10 pm to notsince98
quote:
Modern healthcare services are way better now than they were 50 years ago.
Idk about you but I'd be glad as frick to see a vaccine for the common cold. Unfortunately that won't be happening and I'll still have to deal with it. These diseases are many times worse.
Thanks to antivax figs equating decades old, successful vaccines with a rushed 2020 vaccination, we'll all get measles. This is a really obvious OVERcorrection.
Requiring vaccines is probably a bit authoritarian. The rub is that, for critical thinkers, authoritarian is actually GOOD in this particular case. And I think we'll see a bit of suffering for our freedoms as this plays out in FL
This post was edited on 9/3/25 at 9:16 pm
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:13 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Is professional validation something you need?
Of course
quote:
If you follow me around for a few more years, maybe you will pick something up though.
That you think very highly of yourself
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:13 pm to Hobie101
quote:
Why does it feel like this country is moving backwards and not forwards.
Because it is. For some reason, when one side goes full retard, the other side can only think “hold my beer.”
Liberals went full retard on woke shite and COVID, and now we’ve got deep red states eliminating vaccine mandates to own the libs. Heaven help Florida if the Florida GOP realizes liberals like oxygen.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:15 pm to Shexter
Serious question:
If you're vaccinated against the diseases, will you still catch/spread it?
Meaning if I have the polio or measles vaccine, isn't the kid protected from it?
That's typically what vaccines are supposed to do. Well, except for COVID and the flu, but that's another discussion.
So my question is, why do you care if other people's kids are vaccinated if your kid is?
To be clear, my kids are 18 and 26 and were vaccinated, so I don't have a dog in this fight.
Just curious as to why people care as long as their kid is vaccinated?
If you're vaccinated against the diseases, will you still catch/spread it?
Meaning if I have the polio or measles vaccine, isn't the kid protected from it?
That's typically what vaccines are supposed to do. Well, except for COVID and the flu, but that's another discussion.
So my question is, why do you care if other people's kids are vaccinated if your kid is?
To be clear, my kids are 18 and 26 and were vaccinated, so I don't have a dog in this fight.
Just curious as to why people care as long as their kid is vaccinated?
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:25 pm to Kentucker
I definitely should have fed it back in before posting in order to ensure the the claims were presented in a neutral way, my bad on that. But the point remains that we really don't know all the non-specific (off-target) effects of vaccines because they are not widely studied.
Below is a link to a Ted talk by Christine Stabel Benn who is very much a vaccine proponent but is also is is honest about mistakes made. She believes that we should ask the question: what is the impact of vaccines on overall health? It's only 17 minutes long and does a good job of providing important information.
https://www.ted.com/talks/christine_stabell_benn_how_vaccines_train_the_immune_system_in_ways_no_one_expected
Below is a link to a Ted talk by Christine Stabel Benn who is very much a vaccine proponent but is also is is honest about mistakes made. She believes that we should ask the question: what is the impact of vaccines on overall health? It's only 17 minutes long and does a good job of providing important information.
https://www.ted.com/talks/christine_stabell_benn_how_vaccines_train_the_immune_system_in_ways_no_one_expected
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:27 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Of course
That's gay as frick. You also would get ground to dust on wards.
quote:
That you think very highly of yourself
There are two possibilities here. First is that my mien toward you reflects previous interactions, which proved you did not know anything about medicine. That fact did not seem to temper your enthusiasm to wander into threads beyond your abilities. Secondly, what if I have very good reason to think highly of myself?
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:28 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Secondly, what if I have very good reason to think highly of myself?
Narcissism?
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:32 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
Oh wow, are you going to diagnose me with a personality disorder too? Truly, you are the midget Sir Thomas More.
Seriously, if you think I'm a narcissist, go into academic medicine. Also that's more evidence you would get beaten down on wards.
Seriously, if you think I'm a narcissist, go into academic medicine. Also that's more evidence you would get beaten down on wards.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:33 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Oh wow, are you going to diagnose me with a personality disorder too? Truly, you are the midget Sir Thomas More.
Seriously, if you think I'm a narcissist, go into academic medicine. Also that's more evidence you would get beaten down on wards.
Take a breath and touch some grass nerd
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