re: FDA approval for Pfizer vaccine expected to happen Monday per New York Times

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an experimental "non-vaccine" with no long term studies.

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You mean a fully approved vaccine. It’s not experimental and it has now been studied. If you’re opposed to it now, you are anti-vax. That’s fine but call a spade a spade. You can no longer hide by the reasoning that it’s “experimental.” You’re an anti-vaxer.

Also, in the history of vaccines, please tell me a vaccine that just randomly showed long term side effects longer than two months after the fact. Let me save you the time. You won’t.

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Also, in the history of vaccines...

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People downvoting should read this:

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Historically, vaccine side-effects appear right away
A stroll through vaccine history confirms that even the most damaging side effects have indeed taken place within a six-week window.

After the initial Salk polio vaccine was introduced in 1955, it became clear that some of the first batches inadvertently contained live polio viruses and not the weakened form intended to be in the shot. Within weeks, this mistake resulted in some polio infections and, in a few cases, eventual death. The “Cutter incident,” named after the manufacturing labs with the biggest mishaps, prompted more stringent government regulations. Today, polio vaccines are monitored to make sure the virus is completely inactivated in shots given to children.

In 1976, rare cases of the nerve disorder Guillain- Barré Syndrome emerged some two to three weeks after people began receiving an egg-based inactivated flu vaccine against a dangerous strain of H1N1 swine flu. Scientists eventually determined the effect occurred in one to two people per million shots. Guillain- Barré is a treatable disease, but with flu season winding down that year, the vaccination effort was soon abandoned.

This same condition was recently tied to the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine, with a hundred preliminary reports after approximately 12.5 million doses were administered, according to the FDA. In these cases, the syndrome emerged some two weeks after vaccination, primarily in men over 50.

In 2008, seven to 10 days after receiving a shot combining the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine (MMR) with one for chicken pox (varicella), some babies developed febrile seizures. These seizure cases occurred in one child per 2,300 vaccine doses, which is why the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices currently recommends most children get the two shots separately.

Within weeks of receiving the yellow fever vaccine, a very small number of people develop inflammation of the brain (encephalitis), swelling of the spinal cord covering (meningitis), Guillain-Barré Syndrome, or a multiple-organ system dysfunction called viscerotropic disease. Travelers to places where this fatal disease is endemic are still urged to get the vaccine, although the CDC recommends people over 60 weigh the risks and benefits with their healthcare provider.

The rare exception to adverse events occurring within the six-week timetable is the dengue fever vaccine, Dengavaxia, which the Philippine government approved for use in their children in 2016. When people are infected with the dengue virus, their first bout of this disease is fairly mild. But when they get infected a second time, with a different strain, the reaction can be much more severe and, in some cases, fatal.

As some experts predicted, the vaccine—made from inactivated viruses—acted like a first infection, meaning many kids subsequently bitten by a dengue virus-carrying mosquito fared worse than if they hadn’t been inoculated. In 2019, the FDA approved the vaccine, but only for children in dengue-infested U.S. territories who had a laboratory-confirmed prior case of the disease.

So, no vaccine has caused chronic conditions to emerge years or decades later, says Robert Jacobson, medical director of the population health science program at the Mayo Clinic. “Study after study have looked for this with all sorts of vaccines, and have not found it to be the case,” he says.

For example, a 2016 meta-analysis examined 23 studies for evidence that common childhood vaccines like MMR or haemophilus influenza B might somehow cause childhood diabetes; it found no connection. To test the concern that vaccinations might bring on autoimmune conditions such as multiple sclerosis in adults, a 2017 review evaluated nine common vaccines, including tetanus, human papillomavirus, and seasonal flu. It found that cases of MS did not rise as a result of widespread vaccine use.

Monitoring for COVID-19 is even more extensive
With COVID-19, regulators have added several extra pairs of eyes to watch for adverse events and report them as quickly as possible.

“For all vaccines there is a phase four,” Yildirim says, that involves extensive monitoring after a vaccine completes its phase-three clinical trial and is granted FDA approval. This monitoring primarily happens via the Vaccine Adverse Reporting System (VAERS), where any individual or physician can fill out a form flagging potential side effects. Scientists then evaluate whether any reported effects occur beyond what is generally expected in the population.

Massive computer power is put to use for the second leg of the stool, the Vaccine Safety Datalink. This program is a collaboration between the CDC and nine large healthcare providers, the majority of which are part of the Kaiser Permanente system. One aspect of this program is a rapid cycle analysis, which tracks the records of millions of participants’ patients immediately after a new vaccine is administered.

“This analysis is done weekly. If there are signals [of an adverse event] we see it quickly,” says Nicola Klein, director of Kaiser Permanente’s vaccine study center in Oakland, California, who is leading the analysis for COVID-19. The Datalink program flagged the febrile seizures with the MMRV vaccine, information that was brought to the public within months, Klein says.

New for COVID-19, the CDC developed the V-safe app; once downloaded, vaccine recipients are asked by text messages and web surveys about any adverse events. Other programs involve long-term care facilities and large insurers tasked with flagging issues emerging in their patient populations.

“The breadth of vaccine safety surveillance systems means the limitations of one approach are offset by the strengths of others, making the combination quite robust,” says Grabenstein, of the Immunization Action Coalition.

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Nat Geo

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anti-vaxxer

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Skeptical of the COVID shot isn’t the same as being an anti vaxxer.

I am skeptical of the vaccine, and I have been vaccinated. Am I an anti-vaxxer too?

I hope he pulls through, but

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He’s healthy but has diabetes and hypertension.

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Does not compute.

The sarcasm was pretty thick

Whatever you have to do to rationalize your stance

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Proof the FDA reads this board. There goes the last line of defense

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YoU mEaN tHe SaMe FdA tHaT aPpRoVeD gArDaSiL aNd ViOxX? hArD pAsS.

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Ok that is one type of test, and a pulmonologist wouldn't go off that type of test.

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To a degree you are right. Her pulmonologist did a VO2Max test and she actually had several baseline tests done. As a CT surgeon she has access to a full array of cardiac and pulmonary tests and does them yearly. Even knowing my wife's OCD side the pulmonologist was quite impressed with the amount of data we had. The reason I didn't mention the VO2Max test and the drop there was that test can more easily be cheated and she did not have one within weeks of COVID. The FTP test is a more complete view of the total amount of work the cardiopulmonary system can support. Used by endurance athletes and their trainers and doctors as the gold standard to track aerobic fitness levels.

I don't expect you to believe me. In her case barring some unknown causation that just happened to have a temporal correlation with her COVID infection the loss of cardiopulmonary capability was caused by COVID or some COVID percipitated cause.

Long COVID is a catchall "diagnosis" and her symptoms don't match many of the reports. It is absolutely undefined territory and you have made up your mind in a still wildly contentious area. I have my opinion based on data I collected and have dissected for years. I can look at mine or her ride data from 2 years ago and tell you how many hours of sleep we got the night before.

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The vast majority of the symptoms reported by people with "long covid" are caused by isolation.

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Not in her case, she worked more hours than in 2019 and most of her friends are other doctors so she was anything but isolated. If it was just fatigue it could be linked to work patterns.

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Here is a study by the lancet reprting that 91% of people had complete recovery from covid after 35 weeks,

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This is the first sentence of the findings:

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For the majority of respondents (>91%), the time to recovery exceeded 35 weeks.

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In fairness, I made a small attempt to be more clear about her actual tests and finding but I limited my response because I am not sure how or why to engage someone that misstated the very first sentence of the findings in the first article they posted to bolster their position by 180 degrees. When I read the article I couldn't figure out why you were steelmanning my argument then I reread your post and realized you had no idea what you read. Then maybe you said after 35 weeks meaning more than 35 weeks versus saying by 35 weeks but reading further I am convinced you just started googling and hit on something but completely missed it did not support your argument. So given that I am out.

you didn't read the interpretation:

By seven months, many patients have not yet recovered mainly from systemic and neurological/cognitive symptoms