re: FBI: Bundys Arrested, One Militant Dead

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If only the occupier were black your response would be much different

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You are using the reverse race card

lol

I think these guys are terrorists no matter the color of their skin

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I think these guys are terrorists no matter the color of their skin

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They're delusional, don't see them as terrorists.

This land was occupied by people before, in 1979. Black people. I'll bet some of our progressives feel a bit different about that. There's no need for people to die over a chunk of BLM land in a sea of Federal land with over zealous land managers. The occupiers are delusional, but if other failed attempts by the govt to oust people have shown anything, killing people will just create sympathy for their cause

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don't see them as terrorists.

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They are threatening violence, sieged a federal building, and saying they will not be taken alive. Not sure what else to call that.

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I understand the land in question has been owned by the Government since before Oregon was even a state and the rest was sold to the feds by private land owners years ago

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From this link

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In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights

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By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS). The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell

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Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.

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That kind of abuse of the system would piss a rancher off don't you think?

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The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches.

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Other things done by the feds to push the Hammonds out

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early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water

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August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source.

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The FWS also began restricting access to upper pieces of the Hammond’s private property.The FWS began barricading the road and threatening the Hammonds if they drove through it. The Hammonds removed the barricades and gates and continued to use their right of access. The road was proven later to be owned by the County of Harney. This further enraged the BLM & FWS.

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Shortly after the road & water disputes, the BLM & FWS arbitrarily revoked the Hammond’s upper grazing permit without any given cause, court proceeding or court ruling. they were informed a federal judge ruled, in a federal court, the federal government did not have to observe the Oregon fence out law. “Those laws are for the people, not for them”.

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The Hammonds experienced many years of financial hardship due to the ranch being diminished. The Hammonds had to sell their ranch and home in order to purchase another property that had enough grass to feed their cattle. This property included two grazing rights on public land. Those were also arbitrarily revoked later.

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So here you have a long history of ranchers, specifically the Hammonds being pushed around and bullied by the Feds.

Info on 2001 fire

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In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass.

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Was this started to cover up poaching? Possibly because burning is usually done in the spring. Ill concede the fact that there may be arson and game law violations here but they weren't charged with anything nor were any accusations made till years later. At the time they were only issued a letter of reprimand by BLM for not getting a permit to burn the public land.

We're all aware of the backfire started in @006 that is reported to have endangered some firefighters. To think the Hammonds intentionally tried to harm someone with this fire is a huge stretch when all they were doing is protecting their ranch

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The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff’s office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire.Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.

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That's on the state level but its evident that the Feds are the ones after the Hammonds.

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In 2011, 5 years after the police report was taken, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges; they accused them of being “Terrorists” under the Federal Anti terrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996.

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Can read the link and section (N) list how a federal judge was sketchy in his handling of the trial.

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Judge Hogan sentenced Dwight (Father) to 3 months in prison and Steven (son) to 12 months in federal prison. Both were also stipulated to pay $400,000 to the BLM. On January 4, 2013, Dwight and Steven reported to prison. They fulfilled their sentences, (Dwight 3 months, Steven 12 months). Dwight was released in March 2013 and Steven, January 2014.

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Arrested, tried, convicted, and served their sentence. Should be end of story.

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June 2014, Rhonda Karges, Field Manager for the BLM, and her husband Chad Karges, Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife Refuge (which surrounds the Hammond ranch) filing an appeal with the 9th District Federal Court seeking Dwight’s and Steven’s return to federal prison for the entire 5 years ,

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WTF?

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In October 2015, the 9th District Court “re-sentenced” Dwight and Steven, requiring them to return to prison for several more years. Steven (46) has a wife and 3 children. Dwight (74) will leave Susan (74) to be alone after 55 years of marriage. If he survives, he will be 79 when he is released.

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How can anybody support this? These people have paid their dues

And if there was any doubt what its all about

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During the court preceding the Hammonds were forced to grant the BLM first right of refusal; if the Hammonds ever sold their ranch they would have to sell it to the BLM.

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Now what I have presented is the case made by the Hammonds. Based on this information its clear they have been bullied by the feds.

The Bundy clan and militia supporters saw an opportunity to poke the bear on behalf of the Hammonds. The Bundy's are a different case of their own but the militia folks are probably the last people id want helping me make my case.

Additionally id like to add this video. It was said that the abandoned federal building these people were occupying was on native American lands where artifacts were being destroyed. This video is of the guy reportedly killed by FBI yesterday reaching out to the concerned native Americans

LINK

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You're comparing apples to oranges.

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Of course you would think so.

The Harris Neck protesters were protesting the exact same things people in the West are protesting today. overzealous federal government land managers changing the rules as they go and bullying locals.

Posted at same time.

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Posted at same time.

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nah mine was 2 minutes earlier

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Yikes. This won't end well for anyone.

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If they were white, it doesn't matter. If they were black all hell will break loose.

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Of course you would think so.

The Harris Neck protesters were protesting the exact same things people in the West are protesting today. overzealous federal government land managers changing the rules as they go and bullying locals.

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It's completely different.

In Oregon, the federal government has owned that land since before Oregon was even a state. The Hammonds and Bundys have no rightful claim to the federal property.

In Georgia, the land belonged to the families of the protesters before it was taken from them through the government's claim of eminent domain. Their homes, barns, and farms were razed, and an airbase was built. After the war, the military abandoned the base but the federal government kept the property and turned it into a nature preserve rather than returning it to the original owners. The protesters sought to have the property returned to the families who had it taken from them, and sought reparations for the financial effects the seizure of the property had on them.

It's apples and oranges and if you can't see why then it's because you don't want to.